So, Dave Ramsey....on car buying....

[Eldritch]

Also, since you mentioned it. I would be willing to bet you that a student who got a poetry degree from Stanford is more likely to succeed than a student with an engineering degree from SJSU. The name brand and connections that come from being a Stanford alum matters way more than what major people choose. Not really related to Dave Ramsey, just another issue with our education system.

Probably not. Statistically, Men typically make more per year than ladies do.

 

[Kurosaki]

Oh was he using hyperbole. I didn't know I was supposed to divine that he meant that the stanford poetry major was pre-law and that it was a given that she was a senator's niece.

I am not disputing that the more prestigious the college, the more doors are opened. All else being equal, the name on the college is quite significant. However, when you factor in the cost of that name, you have to analyze the risk that the ROI just won't be there after graduation.

Poet for poet, if you can afford it and think the ROI is there, go to stanford. Engineer for engineer, likewise. But don't go to the more expensive school if you can't afford it, and don't cry foul when your gamble doesn't pay off and demand that we sweep it all under the rug that is the national debt.

I don't feel anybody here is disputing that, the way you stated it. Unless they explicitly said as much and I didn't catch that. It's a long thread and I may have missed something.

 

[Kurosaki]

Probably not. Statistically, Men typically make more per year than ladies do.

Are you saying men can't appreciate poetry?

 

[Eldritch]

Are you saying men can't appreciate poetry?

 

[Kurosaki]

Also, the term "likely" was used. We are talking about distributions, statistics, probability, etc. are we not? So you're telling me that you would use your hard earned money to send your kid to the ivy league school to get a gender studies degree, rather than a state school to get an engineering degree? You're gonna take that bet more than 50% of the time?

You're using the same hyperbole in your point to oppose another viewpoint of hyperbole. Gender studies vs engineering?

But many have and continue to do so in your hypothetical situation. Some of those kids just scrape by doing the bare minimum. And some of those kids are in positions of managerial or executive power now. The type of incompetent bosses people complain about. Even for those that don't have family legacy, they can not only get their kids' foot in the door but walk right through it with a trumpet because of association with a highly regarded fraternity.

How about we compare apples to apples. An engineering degree from a UC school compared to an Ivy League school. All things being similar, yeah, I'm sending my kid to the Ivy League school, since unrealistic comparisons is where this discussion seems to be at this point.

A lot of these legacy colleges aren't fully rooted anymore in the ability of students. Old money, old legacy, and keeping that legacy alive at all costs.

Disclaimer: I'm not pretending no intelligent and functional people come out of Ivy league schools.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

An engineering degree and an MBA, both from schools with STATE in the title. Not to bad for some kid from a dusty, middle of nowhere government town.

Even 20 years ago I had to take out a couple of loans to pay my tuition so I don’t see how his go to a state school and work a job to pay for it applies. Engineering school was my full time job, that shit was hard.

 

[quicksparks]

You're using the same hyperbole in your point to oppose another viewpoint of hyperbole. Gender studies vs engineering?

But many have and continue to do so in your hypothetical situation. Some of those kids just scrape by doing the bare minimum. And some of those kids are in positions of managerial or executive power now. The type of incompetent bosses people complain about. Even for those that don't have family legacy, they can not only get their kids' foot in the door but walk right through it with a trumpet because of association with a highly regarded fraternity.

How about we compare apples to apples. An engineering degree from a UC school compared to an Ivy League school. All things being similar, yeah, I'm sending my kid to the Ivy League school, since unrealistic comparisons is where this discussion seems to be at this point.

A lot of these legacy colleges aren't fully rooted anymore in the ability of students. Old money, old legacy, and keeping that legacy alive at all costs.

Disclaimer: I'm not pretending no intelligent and functional people come out of Ivy league schools.

I think his original comparison looks sufficiently ridiculous and we can move on to discussing one variable at a time.

Yup, connections are important. If you can afford the fancy college and you think the connections are the deciding factor that will enable you to out earn your state school peers, then you take that bet. If you have no intention of joining the exclusive fraternity or running for student body president, then maybe the safer bet is the state school.

 

[Eldritch]

An engineering degree and an MBA, both from schools with STATE in the title. Not to bad for some kid from a dusty, middle of nowhere government town.

Even 20 years ago I had to take out a couple of loans to pay my tuition so I don’t see how his go to a state school and work a job to pay for it applies. Engineering school was my full time job, that shit was hard.

UCLA is $43k per year for out of State kids.

 

[ScarySpikes]

Oh was he using hyperbole. I didn't know I was supposed to divine that he meant that the stanford poetry major was pre-law and that it was a given that she was a senator's niece.

I am not disputing that the more prestigious the college, the more doors are opened. All else being equal, the name on the college is quite significant. However, when you factor in the cost of that name, you have to analyze the risk that the ROI just won't be there after graduation.

Poet for poet, if you can afford it and think the ROI is there, go to stanford. Engineer for engineer, likewise. But don't go to the more expensive school if you can't afford it, and don't cry foul when your gamble doesn't pay off and demand that we sweep it all under the rug that is the national debt.

It wasn't Hyperbole. One one end, Stanford, even though they give a public cost that is astronomical, has incredibly aggressive financial aide packages for students that go there. I told you what the actual costs would be. A student from a middle class (less than 100k) family income will pay, give or take, 10k a year for their education all in, meaning education, room and board, books, etc. A school with a 28.9 billion dollar endowment that admits less than 2500 students a year can do that. Alumni tend to be pretty generous to Stanford. So, on one hand, the cost actually favors Stanford for our theoretical poet. On the career side, our poet could choose to not make as much money if they want to, however assuming that they were reasonably social, they could also take advantage of friends and the alumni network that Stanford has and get conversations with someone who can help them move toward success in whatever career path they want.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

A relative of mine turned down a full ride at a well known state school to go to an ivy league school where expenses were only paid for 1 year. Said person graduated and is in the work force.

At the time I thought the state school was the way to go. I still believe that to be true.

 

[DynastySS]

A relative of mine turned down a full ride at a well known state school to go to an ivy league school where expenses were only paid for 1 year. Said person graduated and is in the work force.

At the time I thought the state school was the way to go. I still believe that to be true.

Depending on the ivy, and their career field, the roi might be worth the investment in this example

 

[wazzuFreddo]

UCLA is $43k per year for out of State kids.

WSU ran about $5k a year for tuition, books and lab fees 20 years ago for an in state student. I could pay for the first semester of the year with money from my summer internships and would get a loan for tuition on the back half.

 

[mikev]

A relative of mine turned down a full ride at a well known state school to go to an ivy league school where expenses were only paid for 1 year. Said person graduated and is in the work force.

At the time I thought the state school was the way to go. I still believe that to be true.

State probably didn't come with Illuminati membership though.

 

[Yakoo752]

I guess you missed the intentional hyperbole I picked up on

maybe if his degree was in English or poetry he would have picked up on the hyperbole

WSU ran about $5k a year for tuition, books and lab fees 20 years ago for an in state student. I could pay for the first semester of the year with money from my summer internships and would get a loan for tuition on the back half.

What's the going rate today?

$24,909

So if, in your planning stages, you didn't anticipate a ~500% increase in costs... that's on you.

 

[Yakoo752]

It shocks me we are still having this discussion today, when the data is so fucking readily available it's silly

No millenial would be complaining today IF wages and tuition trended in line with inflation and economic growth.

BUT wages stagnated and tuition grew faster then economic growth

the disconnect here is insane

 

[kingmoochr]

It shocks me we are still having this discussion today, when the data is so fucking readily available it's silly

No millenial would be complaining today IF wages and tuition trended in line with inflation and economic growth.

BUT wages stagnated and tuition grew faster then economic growth

the disconnect here is insane

But.........they did it.......soooooooooooooooo

 

[quicksparks]

It wasn't Hyperbole. One one end, Stanford, even though they give a public cost that is astronomical, has incredibly aggressive financial aide packages for students that go there. I told you what the actual costs would be. A student from a middle class (less than 100k) family income will pay, give or take, 10k a year for their education all in, meaning education, room and board, books, etc. A school with a 28.9 billion dollar endowment that admits less than 2500 students a year can do that. Alumni tend to be pretty generous to Stanford. So, on one hand, the cost actually favors Stanford for our theoretical poet. On the career side, our poet could choose to not make as much money if they want to, however assuming that they were reasonably social, they could also take advantage of friends and the alumni network that Stanford has and get conversations with someone who can help them move toward success in whatever career path they want.

So what you meant all along was that if you go to Stanford, work your connections, maybe it doesn’t even matter what your degree was in. And the engineer going to sjsu is a dumb dumb who just throws his resume into various piles. Got it.

Go to an affordable state school and be just as affable, glad hand everyone, and you could also get a very good result.

 

[quicksparks]

It shocks me we are still having this discussion today, when the data is so fucking readily available it's silly

No millenial would be complaining today IF wages and tuition trended in line with inflation and economic growth.

BUT wages stagnated and tuition grew faster then economic growth

the disconnect here is insane

So why do these young kids (or their parents really) keep making the decision to overspend on college when the data so readily available suggests it won’t pay off?

 

[Yakoo752]

So why do these young kids (or their parents really) keep making the decision to overspend on college when the data so readily available suggests it won’t pay off?

Because the concept and idea of a collegiate requirement to get ahead is so engrained in the American ideology. Because it's one of the few quantifiable measures we can still use to separate the wheat from the chaff. Because the corporate workforce still values it for some silly fucking reason.

Note, the costs didn't go up until the Gov got their dirty fucking hands on it.

I do not believe in a blanket erase of student debt. I believe that Federal Student loans should be forgiven because they were underwritten based on set determinants of need. If you took out loans in excessive, that's on you.

EDIT: how come at 17 I can walk into a bank and get a 6 figure student loan but I can't do the same for a house? Why are there income requirements for a mortgage but no requirements for student loans? You say parents but mine never signed any loans for me. At 17, I was able to get a 40k loan to go to college... in which I promptly dropped out (thank you military for writing that off on my behalf)

 

[mean dad]

Can we take a moment to appreciate the fact that y'all are legit acting like human beings are computer controlled machines that logically and methodically plan each and every action and weigh all possible negatives while accounting for life's variables?
No emotions, no manipulation, no responsibilities that may preclude bettering one's position; everyone lives in a controlled environment with clear choices and no external forces so if they're poor it's their fault.

Like, what in the hell is society for, if not to preclude the need to scramble from birth in order to survive?
Oh, you didn't work three jobs and live with four strangers while going to the school you can barely afford? Fuck you, stay in your minimum wage job and don't ever fucking complain about a living wage you lazy piece of shit.