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speeding motorcycles, cop, gun, bang!

:wtf The guy on the bike didn't look threatening at that moment, he slowly looked to his right. Wasn't making any fast moves. Right arm did not swing around. I looked at the video a few times. From what i can see, the cop fucked up. Now he has to pay the price. That is that.
 
http://toledoblade.com/article/20100513/NEWS02/5130395/-1/NEWS10

Article published May 13, 2010
2 witnesses say Ottawa Hills officer 'justified' in shooting
But fellow motorcyclist's account mirrors victim's
By ERICA BLAKE
BLADE STAFF WRITER

The video showing an Ottawa Hills police officer following and then shooting a motorcyclist in the back was viewed in Lucas County Common Pleas Court again yesterday - this time to show what two defense witnesses described as "indicators" of a dangerous situation for the officer.
During the third day of the criminal trial of Ottawa Hills Officer Thomas White, defense witnesses offered their opinions of the May 23 shooting of Michael McCloskey, Jr. Specifically, both witnesses testified after seeing the 14-minute video that the officer had reasonable belief he was in danger and was "justified" in firing his weapon.
Officer White, 27, who has been on leave from his part-time job as a police officer since the shooting, is charged with one count of felonious assault with a gun specification. If convicted, he faces up to 11 years in prison.
"The facts known to the officer at the time the shots were fired are all that matter," said Columbus police Officer James Scanlon, who testified that he teaches and consults in law enforcement issues including use of force. "I come to the conclusion that it was reasonable and, by all the standards we live by, it was justified."
Officer Scanlon and Urey Patrick, a retired FBI agent turned consultant living in Maine, testified on behalf of Officer White yesterday after assistant prosecutors concluded their case. Both men testified that the actions of the two motorcyclists viewed by Officer White while in his patrol car could be perceived as an "imminent risk."
The men noted that the two motorcyclists stopped for about 10 seconds to talk at a stop sign and then rode off at a high rate of speed. Believing that they knew he was behind them, Officer White would think that they were trying to get away, Mr. Patrick said.
"One appeared to be out of control, the other suddenly stopped," he said. "They already indicated a willingness to flee. That's an indicator that this is not a routine stop."

When questioned about whether it was clear that the motorcyclists knew there was a police officer behind them, the men stated that when investigating an officer-involved shooting, only what the officer knows at the time can be considered.
Both men also acknowledged that for a motorist to comply with a police officer's orders, they would have to be aware of what he wanted them to do. In reviewing the video of the incident with the two men, Assistant County Prosecutor Jeff Lingo noted that Officer White did not activate his lights and sirens until after the motorcyclists began accelerating, and the verbal order the officer gave Mr. McCloskey was not distinguishable because of the sound of the sirens.
The testimony came after six witnesses on behalf of the state, including the two motorcyclists. Aaron Snyder, who was with Mr. McCloskey the night he was shot, testified early yesterday that he didn't know a police officer was behind him.
Mr. Snyder, 36, a father of two who owns a motorcycle maintenance shop, said he had been out with his friend that evening and the two were traveling north on Indian Road just after 2 a.m. on the way to Mr. McCloskey's home in Ottawa Hills.
He said just as they were nearing Central Avenue, he noticed a police car - not behind him, but approaching from the west in the eastbound lanes.
He testified that he feared he would be hit by the vehicle and so swerved as an "avoidance maneuver," coming to a stop across Central Avenue, where he was arrested.
Mr. Snyder's testimony mirrored that of Mr. McCloskey, who said he believed a friend was driving in a car behind them.
Mr. McCloskey, who is paralyzed from the waist down, testified Tuesday that it was not until he came to a stop on Indian Road at Central Avenue and his loud motorcycle began to idle that he was aware of the lights and sirens of the police officer.
It was shortly after - about three seconds after Officer White exited his patrol car - that Mr. McCloskey, now 25, was shot.
The video of the incident was captured on the dashboard camera in Officer White's patrol vehicle. In the moments before the shooting, it shows Mr. McCloskey stopped at Central Avenue and looking behind him. It then shows him looking across the street where Mr. Snyder was stopped.
He then turns around a second time as Officer White gets out of his car - his left hand on his handlebar, his right hand resting on his leg. When he is shot, Mr. McCloskey seizes up briefly and then falls to his right, with his motorcycle landing on top of his leg.
Also called to the witness stand by defense attorney Jerry Phillips was James Sedlar, the Ottawa Hills fire chief and a part-time police officer for the village.
He testified that he arrived on scene in his capacity as a police officer and noticed a knife clipped to Mr. McCloskey's boot.
Officer Sedlar acknowledged that the knife - later determined to have a 2-inch blade - was "in plain sight," and the clip and handle were not concealed from view.
Testimony is to continue today before Judge Gary Cook.
Contact Erica Blake at:
eblake@theblade.com
or 419-213-2134.
 
There is something fishy about the video that has been bugging me. It's the presence of the other cop car. It appears he had his lights on, and was on an 'intercept' course ahead of the bikes. How did he get there so quick if everything we see is all there is to it? Was the cop trailing them for a bit and call for back up BEFORE he lit them up? Something doesn't make sense from what we have seen IMO. Most small departments do not run that many cops at night. Certainly not two in the same vicinity where one can show up in SIX SECONDS! I think someone was a little spooked/suspicious of the bikes way before he decided to light them up and already radioed for help.
 
There is something fishy about the video that has been bugging me. It's the presence of the other cop car. It appears he had his lights on, and was on an 'intercept' course ahead of the bikes. How did he get there so quick if everything we see is all there is to it? Was the cop trailing them for a bit and call for back up BEFORE he lit them up? Something doesn't make sense from what we have seen IMO. Most small departments do not run that many cops at night. Certainly not two in the same vicinity where one can show up in SIX SECONDS! I think someone was a little spooked/suspicious of the bikes way before he decided to light them up and already radioed for help.

On another forum im on where this is being discussed someone mentioned the same thing. It is kinda strange.
 
To whomever has taken it upon themselves in this thread to continue harassment outside of the forum after I clearly stated I was leaving BARF:

I have come back to make one last, VERY CLEAR, statement.

LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE. NOW.

I will pursue necessary legal action if need be. Grow the fuck up.

Deuces.

If you were accused of being an 0311 Marine.

Would there be enough evidence to prove it?


:x
 
The shoot occurred too fast. The officer was already keyed up. I don't see enough furtive movement in the video to justify anything other than taking up a more defensive position until the motorist secures his bike.

Also, the officer testifies he saw a "knife." Wrong answer! Edge weaponry is not so easily deployable when you're holding up an 800 pound bike and have your back turned to the officer and the officer is standing 10-15 feet away.

Inexperienced part time cop with insufficient training in FATS = probably liability on the street.
 
Ok, all those harrasing Jihiadikiller, put it on lockdown please. The guy asked to be left alone. Entropic, VTRZA, gixxerjoe, Ant, bluenote that means all of you. Here's the deal: official moderator request. Let it all go, stick to the topic in the thread and move on please. Any continuing of this track or discussion will result in suspension votes which is something that's a waste of all our time. Let's just get back on track.

I'd also like to say: forgive and forget guys. We all need a way to leave with our tails.

Can we start a new thread with "photoshoppin" of some pics? Regardless of the issue at hand some of those pics are priceless and you can't help but laugh at them.
 
It always surprises me when people call foul when they don't comply with police orders. Put your hands up doesn't mean start arguing about your rights. It doesn't mean scratch your balls or turn the key off or do the hokey pokey. It means, put your hands in the damn air. When I first watched this video, my initial reaction was, this dude was stupid for not putting his hands up, and even worse for moving his right hand to a typical gun carrying position; especially after he looks at the cop, looks at his friend, then makes the move.

BUT...(and this is a big but), the whole situation happened much too quickly to be justified. The victim deserves a reasonable amount of response time, and I believe that the true nature of the discharge of the firearm may have been unintentional due to the officer resting his finger on the trigger rather than along side the gun, and his nerves got to him.

If I was the rider being pulled over (I have loud pipes, and no mirrors), as soon as the red and blue lights light up the night sky, I would have immediately pulled over to the side of the road and kept my hands on the handlebars awaiting for verbal commands. That's it. He didn't react the way I would have.

If I was the cop, I would have been nervous based on the visual information we have available to us in the video, and would likely have stopped well behind the MC rider and made my commands via loudspeaker from behind cover.

My idea of justice and punishment would include the cop losing his job, being convicted of some form of assualt with a deadly weapon or unnecessary use of force. The victim would then receive a civil judgement/award that should easily cover all medical, rehabilitation, assisted living, etc bills for the rest of his life.

For all of the BS in this thread, I am ashamed of the BARFers involved, and feel this is one of the worst displays of a BARF thread in history.
 
For all of the BS in this thread, I am ashamed of the BARFers involved, and feel this is one of the worst displays of a BARF thread in history.

:rofl

As you give your two cents on the situation...

Welcome to the Club! :laughing
 
It always surprises me when people call foul when they don't comply with police orders. Put your hands up doesn't mean start arguing about your rights. It doesn't mean scratch your balls or turn the key off or do the hokey pokey. It means, put your hands in the damn air. When I first watched this video, my initial reaction was, this dude was stupid for not putting his hands up, and even worse for moving his right hand to a typical gun carrying position; especially after he looks at the cop, looks at his friend, then makes the move.

If I was the rider being pulled over (I have loud pipes, and no mirrors), as soon as the red and blue lights light up the night sky, I would have immediately pulled over to the side of the road and kept my hands on the handlebars awaiting for verbal commands. That's it. He didn't react the way I would have.

I can't rewatch the video right now, but as I recall the officer may have said something a second or less before firing. All I know for certain is he yelled after he shot, I'm not so sure about before. Anyway, you don't yell 'hands up' and expect compliance within .5 seconds. As detailed in traffic education, you have a response time in the order of 1/3-1/2 of a second, so his brain was only just processing the command.

Your reaction as you describe it is very militant, very orderly. It would certainly resolve many problems, but civilians are civilians, not soldiers. It's ridiculous to require or expect all citizens to behave like good little soldiers in something like a traffic stop.
 
Can we start a new thread with "photoshoppin" of some pics? Regardless of the issue at hand some of those pics are priceless and you can't help but laugh at them.

You can but you can't P-shop photos of a member...it falls under the harrasment issue in the TOS. My profile is more tragic than his by far. To each's own.

Thanks for understanding.
 
You can but you can't P-shop photos of a member...it falls under the harrasment issue in the TOS. My profile is more tragic than his by far. To each's own.

Thanks for understanding.

ok sounds good. I just want a good laugh. I don't wanna be hit with the mod stick.
 
ok sounds good. I just want a good laugh. I don't wanna be hit with the mod stick.

Me too, and don't get me wrong it had its moments, but then it kinda went too far. As I said, people have to be allowed to back out slowly when they fuck up. I've needed that consideration before too.

Thanks Entropic!
 
Ok, all those harrasing Jihiadikiller, put it on lockdown please. The guy asked to be left alone. Entropic, VTRZA, gixxerjoe, Ant, bluenote that means all of you. Here's the deal: official moderator request. Let it all go, stick to the topic in the thread and move on please. Any continuing of this track or discussion will result in suspension votes which is something that's a waste of all our time. Let's just get back on track.

I'd also like to say: forgive and forget guys. We all need a way to leave with our tails.

OK I didn't see this thread until just a few minutes ago and after a quick read through the pages I think you guys were really being dicks about this whole thing. I mean, christ! You agreed about the major point of the cop fucking up and then proceeded to argue about bullshit for no apparent reason.

I think it's time for some people to take a step back for a minute and think about what you're posting. I'm not claiming that I'm perfect and don't get angry, far from it, but seriously; settle the fuck down.

It's nearly impossible to have a civilized discussion on this site anymore. It's really sad.

As to the actual point of this thread; it's really pretty simple. If I (not a cop) had run down the bikers and shot one in the back would there be any argument what-so-ever? No. I'd be in prison for manslaughter. Cops aren't allowed to go around shooting people any more than the rest of us.

In a perfect world we'd pull out all the non-violent "criminals" that he put in jail for drug-related charges and throw his ass in to replace them. Done deal. I even saved the taxpayers a few bucks.
 
"Want to tempt a TOS suspension go bye bye?? ...keep it up you're treading on thin ice here with the personally threats. No where did I say the cop wasn't guilty, or said the biker had full guilt. I simply put it in real world terms that both of these bikers just made a bad mistake that got one shot, even if the cop was in the wrong, they made the bad choice to make a FELONY pursuit out of a traffic violation. So you're wrong. It wasn't just speeding. The cop didn't know if these two were involved in a prior felony causing them to speed away, and we don't have both sides of the story. The hand movement the biker made could have been conceived as a motion to draw a gun, even if it was bad protocol it is enough reasoning and shown on tape to draw a decent arguement from the officers defense. You've shown a disposition here to reject, mock, and now call for violence against me, for harboring a different opinion. This is becoming a trend of yours in thread after thread VTRZA...maybe you need the vacation from BARF."

1+1= 2 = +2



This just in.... not every response in every thread you post in is to you.




/\/\/\/\
"...You are nothing but a shit starter, you don't provide anything valid other then talking trash and starting shit with people who don't agree with you. You don't even debate anything most of the time, just sit and talk shit about people instead of providing any validation to what you are saying....."

+100000 :laughing:laughing
 
BUT...(and this is a big but), the whole situation happened much too quickly to be justified. The victim deserves a reasonable amount of response time, and I believe that the true nature of the discharge of the firearm may have been unintentional due to the officer resting his finger on the trigger rather than along side the gun, and his nerves got to him.

My idea of justice and punishment would include the cop losing his job, being convicted of some form of assualt with a deadly weapon or unnecessary use of force. The victim would then receive a civil judgement/award that should easily cover all medical, rehabilitation, assisted living, etc bills for the rest of his life.

For all of the BS in this thread, I am ashamed of the BARFers involved, and feel this is one of the worst displays of a BARF thread in history.

:thumbup
 
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