The debate about gear rages on

[ALANRIDER7]

[youtube]ECWwxlS1xbo[/youtube]

 

[SpikeVFR]

when moving, with a fully vented light colored textile jacket, you are likely cooler than a person in a t-shirt who has the sun beating down on their bare skin
throw a wet t-shirt on under that jacket, and it can be sort of chilly into the 70's at speed

If people are completely honest about it, I think that those of us who ride fully protected have just a bit of envy for the naivete regarding safety that the t-shirt clad possess, knowing full well that we are safer. Especially on a frickin 100° commute day. I can think all afternoon how stupid they are, but I still wish, just a bit, that I was ridin free in the air. Getting on 24 takes most of it away, but I'm still steamy when I get home.

And the debate doesn't rage, it just buzzes and whines like flies around the room on said hot day.

PS And there's always road rash girl.

 

[GAJ]

when moving, with a fully vented light colored textile jacket, you are likely cooler than a person in a t-shirt who has the sun beating down on their bare skin
throw a wet t-shirt on under that jacket, and it can be sort of chilly into the 70's at speed

That type of gear has already been trashed in this thread by the ATGATT crew as not worthy.

I'm guessing even a vented armored leather jacket won't cut it with them.

Not as good as race grade one piece leathers don't you know.

 

[Onebadscot]

I used to to be a jeans, t-shirt, F-U I'm doing what I want fool. Well try nursing road rash for a month and tell me how cool you are? I bet 99% of you who are anti-atgatt have never been down? Have a friend who will never walk again, would a spine protector have saved his back? Don't know but damn it guy's it's not that bad wearing gear! Shi& happens, and never when you think it is going to happen. My final bitch is for the A-holes, yes A-holes who take thier cute girl out on thier sport bike dressed for the club?? twofinger Risk your own damn skin!

 

[corndog67]

I used to to be a jeans, t-shirt, F-U I'm doing what I want fool. Well try nursing road rash for a month and tell me how cool you are? I bet 99% of you who are anti-atgatt have never been down? Have a friend who will never walk again, would a spine protector have saved his back? Don't know but damn it guy's it's not that bad wearing gear! Shi& happens, and never when you think it is going to happen. My final bitch is for the A-holes, yes A-holes who take thier cute girl out on thier sport bike dressed for the club?? twofinger Risk your own damn skin!

I don't think that its anti atgatt, its more that some people that put labels on others for not wearing what they deem to be the proper gear, are a little too full of themselves. Because of the gear they wear. And I'd bet that pretty much most of the people on here, the guys that actually ride, and have real on the bike experience, have been down. I see that there is a tendency of low/no miles guys, to call others, squids, because those other guys aren't wearing enough gear to satisfy them (the actual squids). Squids is a term that identifies a lack of skill, or experience, or a mindset. It didn't used to (and still doesn't) identify what someone wore when they rode.

 

[Feanor]

I don't think that its anti atgatt, its more that some people that put labels on others for not wearing what they deem to be the proper gear, are a little too full of themselves. Because of the gear they wear. And I'd bet that pretty much most of the people on here, the guys that actually ride, and have real on the bike experience, have been down. I see that there is a tendency of low/no miles guys, to call others, squids, because those other guys aren't wearing enough gear to satisfy them (the actual squids). Squids is a term that identifies a lack of skill, or experience, or a mindset. It didn't used to (and still doesn't) identify what someone wore when they rode.

I think what you've pegged is the phenomena of people on BARF having a problem expressing a genuine outreach of love and concern As motorcyclists, there is a certain tough exterior that must be maintained with no hint of emotional gheyness (not that there is anything wrong with being...) as proof against ridicule and humiliation.

In the end "I love you man, and I don't want anything to cause you pain in the future" becomes thru the BARF manly filter, "You're a moron, and only an idiot would ride without proper gear! You're an ass... You have no idea what you're f'ing talking about! Dress for the crash not for the ride!" etc etc etc

Where a girlfriend or your Mother will send you a note saying how much they care and how they want you to please be careful, BARF devotees will send you a particularly gruesome rash and crash image, with the perfunctory, "I really don't give a shit about you, but I will write 8 pages about how much I don't care about what you do!"

There is so much love in the gear Nazi movement you can almost feel the bitch slap!

 

[Marcoose]

I'd bet that pretty much most of the people on here, the guys that actually ride, and have real on the bike experience, have been down.

I've been down.

 

[afm199]

And then there's the actuarial view.

If you ride without good gear, the chances are much greater that you'll suffer serious injury or death at much more significant rate than those who wear ATGATT.... So you have to ask yourself a question. How much time do you want to spend with someone whose behavior indicates that their life is highly likely to be impacted or truncated by their behavior, which is certainly a judgment many make with drug addicts and alcohol abusers.

 

[Onebadscot]

I don't think I'm a gear Nazi. I'm just shakin my head at YOUR choice. It's not like your wearing 18 damn layers of gear? You have the right to ride naked if you want, and I have the right to shake my head. I personally just don't understand why you would not wear the gear. I only didn't when I was young and thought I'll never crash

Just ask any LEO, most accidents happen 5 mins from home, so watch that I'm just going to store.

Now I sound like one of the old hens who cluck at me for riding fast. Just be safe. Better to have it and not need it

 

[ALANRIDER7]

And then there's the actuarial view.

If you ride without good gear, the chances are much greater that you'll suffer serious injury or death at much more significant rate than those who wear ATGATT.... So you have to ask yourself a question. How much time do you want to spend with someone whose behavior indicates that their life is highly likely to be impacted or truncated by their behavior, which is certainly a judgment many make with drug addicts and alcohol abusers.

You're wasting your time.

These threads are pointless. Let the herd get thinned. It's Darwin in action. No matter what you say, some people will never get just how severe and violent a crash impact can be. They cannot comprehend the word 'ragdoll'. They delude themselves into thinking they won't ever crash. Or that they won't hit the ground that hard or they'll somehow use their super noob ninja powers to magically reduce their momentum and they'll land on a Serta mattress instead of the tarmac.

Physics is physics. Some just don't get it.

 

[corndog67]

And then there's the actuarial view.

If you ride without good gear, the chances are much greater that you'll suffer serious injury or death at much more significant rate than those who wear ATGATT.... So you have to ask yourself a question. How much time do you want to spend with someone whose behavior indicates that their life is highly likely to be impacted or truncated by their behavior, which is certainly a judgment many make with drug addicts and alcohol abusers.

Ernie, you're equating not wearing the gear that you want someone else to wear, the same as someone drinking or drugging? You've got to be kidding.

Highly likely? That's a pretty good reach there. Possibly, maybe. Highly likely? No.

 

[afm199]

Ernie, you're equating not wearing the gear that you want someone else to wear, the same as someone drinking or drugging? You've got to be kidding.

Highly likely? That's a pretty good reach there. Possibly, maybe. Highly likely? No.

Of course I am . People who wear flip flops, t shirts, jeans, shorts, and even no helmets are going to have a higher rate of both injury and death than those who wear ATGATT. Why would I not equate? Risky drug behavior increases your risk of injury or death.

I am NOT equating lack of gear with consumption of alcohol. I am stating that many of us judge those who abuse alcohol and drugs as potentially vulnerable to accident, sickness, and even death at a greater rate than those who don't.

 

[canyonrat]

Well, based on ALANRIDER7's video, no one can ride...lots of sh!t happens when you are learning to ride. Later, when advanced, only the "Kobayashi Maru" situations get you.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

Would you attempt to climb Mt. Everest without a parka?

That's the worst comparison I've ever heard.

Climbing Mt. Everest IS GOING TO BE COLD. No doubt about it. You wear a parka (amongst other safety/weather gear) to protect you from the GUARANTEED injuries you would sustain if you didn't.

While riding a motorcycle, you wear gear to protect you from the increased injuries if you crash, but the crash is not guaranteed. Motorcycle gear does not prevent the crash, it mitigates the injury (no doubt about that either). Whereas climbing and cold weather gear on Everest absolutely prevents the injury that is guaranteed if you didn't wear any protection.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

I suppose I have the choice to let my daughter figure out by herself that certain attires in certain places will get her raped. But what a SOB I would be. Yet let fellow riders choose and learn on their own seems OK. Dunno about that.

I know this is a bit off subject (way off subject if we're being real) but...

You can't be serious!? A woman's clothing (in this example you provided, your daughter) is what gets her raped!? Never mind the RAPIST. Come on guy, get real.

If what you were saying was true, then why doesn't every single stripper get raped every single night they work, every single time they get on stage? I eagerly await your explanation.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

I used to to be a jeans, t-shirt, F-U I'm doing what I want fool. Well try nursing road rash for a month and tell me how cool you are? I bet 99% of you who are anti-atgatt have never been down? Have a friend who will never walk again, would a spine protector have saved his back? Don't know but damn it guy's it's not that bad wearing gear! Shi& happens, and never when you think it is going to happen. My final bitch is for the A-holes, yes A-holes who take thier cute girl out on thier sport bike dressed for the club?? twofinger Risk your own damn skin!

So assuming she is over 18 (most likely over 21 if they are going to the club as indicated), how is it the rider's responsibility for what the passenger is wearing? And how is their passengers "poor" decision to not wear gear a reflection of who the rider is?

The rider, if they so choose, has the right to deny anyone on to the back of their bike for any reason (lack of gear including). But the passenger also has just as much a right to not get on a bike if they don't feel properly protected. If you are going to call someone who you feel is under geared an "A-hole", at least make it the right person.

You sir, are a fool.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

GORE

WARNING: GORY PHOTO OF MY FOOT AFTER A CRASH!!!

Alright ladies and gents', lets get real. Enough pussy footin around hypothetical situations, metaphors, what if's, and woulda/shoulda/coulda. These photos are of MY foot after a crash, and the story associated with them is as follows.

I've been riding for almost 7 years now, on every type of 2 wheeled machine imaginable. I dropped my bike once in a parking lot when I slipped on the paint, and another time when a piece of gravel popped the front tire off the ground and jerked the handlebars over. Both times were at a snails pace, and only put minor scratches on my fenders. I was unscathed. Each time taught me a valuable lesson about riding. And there were plenty of other learning experiences throughout my riding career as well. Each time I had a close call, near miss, or watched another rider make a mistake, I got smarter. Turned in to a pretty wise one if I do say so myself. Although I love speed and power, I never exceeded my riding ability.

In August of 2012, I took a vacation with the family to Hawaii. While there we rented some scooters to go sightseeing. Long story short, I decided to start screwing around on my little scooter. Whats the worst that could happen? After all it was just a scooter.

A couple weak wheelies in to my squidly riding, I pulled a big one. A REAL big one. So far in fact that when I came down, the crappy front end on that thing (with forks already known to be low on fluid) buckled and slammed me to the pavement harder then imaginable. My foot had been smashed between the bike and the pavement, and I had been wearing flip-flops. Normally I ride with at least a tennis shoe to make shifting easier, but we were in Hawaii, and the thing had a centrifugal clutch so I didn't need shoes/boots for anything more than safety.

2 screws later, 3 months out of work and non weight bearing, $35k in medical bills + lost wages, and some hurt pride later, I finally returned to work. I live each and every day in some level of pain and discomfort, and my surgeons and doctors told me that I will always have pain now. I pay my own medical insurance, and always have. So to anyone who says I am responsible for money out of your pockets you can go shove it. I've paid in to that system more than it has paid me. Plus, insurance is a legal requirement if you ride, the decision to ride is not mandated anywhere. Therefore, you choose to have insurance. Anyone like me who pays for their own insurance is not the same as an uninsured person's medical bills.

The moral of the story? Don't ride like a fucking idiot! Did my flip-flops make me crash? No. My shorts and tee-shirt? No. My DECISION to ride a machine in a manner that it was not built or maintained for is what led to my crash.

How do I ride today? The same as I did before I rode like a squid that 1 time. Safe as can be, but NOT ATGATT. Jeans and a tee-shirt with shoes for me. Because my OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF CRASHING taught me that gear does NOTHING for preventing a crash. A crash either happens because the rider does something irresponsible, a driver does something stupid, or a mechanical/unforeseen thing occurs (like a blown tire or deer crossing). And yes, I hate my squidly decision on that fateful day, but I WILL NOT run and hide in a corner behind gear and claim that it makes me any less likely to go down.

Everyone ride safe, don't make that 1 squidly decision like I did, and keep the rubber side down (both pieces of rubber when on public roads please).

*Holds out hand, releases grip as to allow microphone to fall dramatically with a thud to the stage, calmly walks away with a straight face...*

 

[solarae]

Went dirtbiking in my sneakers (supposed easy ride just down a dirt road) cuz my boots felt too small in the heat. Lost the front, got a spiral fracture of the ankle and dislocated the base of the middle toe (Lisfranc injury) almost a year ago. Ankle OK. Foot still effed. Might always be.

 

[redtail]

Because my OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF CRASHING taught me that gear does NOTHING for preventing a crash.

Sorry for your crash and sorry you didn't learn more from it.

 

[fast4ward]

And yes, I hate my squidly decision on that fateful day, but I WILL NOT run and hide in a corner behind gear and claim that it makes me any less likely to go down.

I missed the conclusion that wearing protective gear stops you from going down - who said that? That's ludicrous if they did. It's about realizing there are a number of factors out of your control that could cause you to crash. Those who choose to wear gear are just trying to mitigate the effects if something bad happens.

But hey, everybody - you wear what you want. I don't care about you, or anybody else that rides unprotected, and have no sympathy for you when you suffer as a consequence. Just don't block the road I'm riding on if you do go down and suffer preventable injuries by your own choices.


And your foot? No sympathy at all. Self inflicted. Flip-flops for fucks sake