The debate about gear rages on

[Marcoose]

...most of you have never experienced the relentless heat that goes on in the rest of the country unless you've actually lived there for a while. It does affect riding habits.

7 years in Houston. Very few rides in the summer unless it was very early in the morning.

Most of motorcycling in the US is a hobby or option, and most for the well to-do.

 

[Cincinnatus]

7 years in Houston. Very few rides in the summer unless it was very early in the morning.

Sorry, I call BS on that. I've been in Houston quite a few times for business in the summer, and I've seen dozens of riders & pillions wearing beachwear in the daytime at 80+ degrees F.

I really don't want to see them crash, the amount of skin on the road would be more than what's left on the carcass.

 

[Marcoose]

Sorry, I call BS on that. I've been in Houston quite a few times for business in the summer, and I've seen dozens of riders & pillions wearing beachwear in the daytime at 80+ degrees F.

Yo, very few rides of my own. Too hot for full gear in the middle of the day and w/o splitting. Plenty of indoor projects.

Neither here or there, weather is a very bad excuse to not wear proper gear. It really goes to demonstrate the low level of knowledge of the average rider. Alas, people can't choose to save their own lives.

It's peculiar. Stock motorcycles have some 50 direct govt-sanctioned, -approved, -mandated regulations, and some other 200 indirect ones. From the distance between blinkers to the fatigue test of the chain. Yet having a fellow rider wearing something that may save her/his life is an affront on liberties.

 

[mean dad]

7 years in Houston. Very few rides in the summer unless it was very early in the morning.

Most of motorcycling in the US is a hobby or option, and most for the well to-do.

Your 'statistic' surprises me, as motorcycles are very inexpensive compared to cars. Also, what qualifies one as 'well to do'?

Sorry, I call BS on that. I've been in Houston quite a few times for business in the summer, and I've seen dozens of riders & pillions wearing beachwear in the daytime at 80+ degrees F.

I really don't want to see them crash, the amount of skin on the road would be more than what's left on the carcass.

Pretty sure he meant that he did no riding other than early mornings, not the general Houston riding population.
And shame on them for not thinking of you.

 

[Marcoose]

...what qualifies one as 'well to do'?

Fat fucks like me that have $3K a year to blow on a toy. If I lived in the projects and barely had money to ride Muni and only ate 2 meals a day, etc, leisure and good times would be picking shells at the beach, not motorcycling.

 

[mrmarklin]

Fat fucks like me that have $3K a year to blow on a toy. If I lived in the projects and barely had money to ride Muni and only ate 2 meals a day, etc, leisure and good times would be picking shells at the beach, not motorcycling.

This^^
Motorcycles are toys here in the "west". Disposable income to buy toys makes one well off.

 

[Cincinnatus]

And I refer once again to the Jimmy Carter/Joan Claybrook NHTSA's uber-safe motorcycle.

The Gummint WILL, if given the chance, smother you in bubble-wrap to save your life, if it can be written up as a life-saver.

Whether you like the bubble-wrap is NOT the Gummint's business, tho.

 

[Losmeister]

never got the motorcycle=toy thing...

It's my commuting vehicle and I respect it cos I don't wanna be
spatula'd off the road...ever... if I can possibly help it

 

[Daks]

Motorcycling and scooters have been on the uptick because of their relative cheapness compared to cars, and how they save on gas (well, the smaller ones).

Motorcycles are becoming less toy than utility. I bet it has a lot to do with more interest in smaller displacement bikes. In the last 2-3 years we had the CBR250, Ninja 300 and CBR500(R,F,X) come out.

Me? I wear gear because a lot of it has to do with me not being able to afford gas and maintenance for a car (or the car itself), let alone the avoidable medical bills I'd accrue if I went across pavement.

 

[mean dad]

Fat fucks like me that have $3K a year to blow on a toy. If I lived in the projects and barely had money to ride Muni and only ate 2 meals a day, etc, leisure and good times would be picking shells at the beach, not motorcycling.

This^^
Motorcycles are toys here in the "west". Disposable income to buy toys makes one well off.

A CBR954RR and a Harley Crossbones might vie for title of "toy" for the well to do, but I think you might be projecting. A used, ratty looking motorcycle was the cheapest thing I could use for transportation when I started, and I'd like to think it's true today.
Not a shiny second vehicle to tool around on when the weather's perfect.

 

[Bravnik]

This^^
Motorcycles are toys here in the "west". Disposable income to buy toys makes one well off.

Not sure about that. You don't put 30k plus miles a year on a Toy.

 

[Darwin]

Wish I could find the study right now - google skilz failing me.

When riders crash without gear, they incur higher hospital costs IF they survive. However, fewer survive their crash and body bags are cheap. So the end result is that the cost in dollars to society was the same whether riders wore gear or not. Sure, there were more fatalities - but Darwinism doesn't work if we don't eliminate genes from the pool.

I'm for free choice (mostly). If people want to wear gear, fine. If they don't, that's fine too. I'd like to help them make an informed decision. But then they're adults and they have to bear the consequences of their choices. I realize no one lives in a vacuum and other people who care about the rider are affected as well, but usually the one who gets hurt is the person holding onto the handlebars - you ride, your choice.

 

[motopsyco59]

So, what I get from this thread:

There are people who are clueless enough to think $59.00 BILT crap/shit moto-style boots will somehow prevent all foot injuries.



Good Lord. Folks: Just because it is is made to look racy and moto-related doesn't mean jack fucking shit.

I followed the link, looked at the boots and they are copies of my A* Ridge Waterproof boots. If, "if" the BILT boots are the same construction then they will offer basically the same level of "protection" as the A* boots. I'm happy with my boots even though they're "touring" style boots. They work fine on the sport bike.

Forces of impact will overcome any piece of gear, sooner or later. Accidents, getting off, and collisions are inevitable. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Skills, Technique, and Experience (hopefully) instill the Wisdom for sound decision making.

Cheers!

 

[Marcoose]

A used, ratty looking motorcycle was the cheapest thing I could use for transportation when I started, and I'd like to think it's true today.

Sure. Assuming you lived in an area without public transportation, and lived and couldn't leave there because a social-economic situation. Otherwise, $2 per bus ride, 10 rides per week, 50 weeks per year is $1,000 per year. It's going to have to be quite the ratty looking motorcycle to beat that. It's rather an unfortunate exception that someone MUST ride to make a living. (Though don't get me started with the free country BS because often times lack of choice and bad luck is all J6P has to look forward to. Just tag along to many volunteering events.)

So there. Motorcycling is (mostly) a hobby. A hobby that mandates us to have proper tyres, headlight, brake lights, blinkers, horn, muffler, eye protection, insurance, registration and dozens of other direct and indirect requirements for its enjoyment. Yet the harp is about something we all agree is smart to have and we are already in "compliance". That is peculiar.

When riders crash without gear, they incur higher hospital costs IF they survive. However, fewer survive their crash and body bags are cheap.

That's macabre.

 

[mean dad]

Sure. Assuming you lived in an area without public transportation, and lived and couldn't leave there because a social-economic situation. Otherwise, $2 per bus ride, 10 rides per week, 50 weeks per year is $1,000 per year. It's going to have to be quite the ratty looking motorcycle to beat that. It's rather an unfortunate exception that someone MUST ride to make a living. (Though don't get me started with the free country BS because often times lack of choice and bad luck is all J6P has to look forward to. Just tag along to many volunteering events.)

So there. Motorcycling is (mostly) a hobby. A hobby that mandates us to have proper tyres, headlight, brake lights, blinkers, horn, muffler, eye protection, insurance, registration and dozens of other direct and indirect requirements for its enjoyment. Yet the harp is about something we all agree is smart to have and we are already in "compliance". That is peculiar.

That's macabre.

Get the fuck over yourself, dude.

Do poor people not go to the store, the doctor's office, any social event (or are you of the mind that if one goes anywhere except work, then it's now a toy and not transportation?), or other innumerable examples.
Do those buses run when they need them to? Do buses run where they need them to, or should they walk a mile or so because they're poor?

lol, so there, motorcycles are a viable means of transportation for the unwashed masses, not just playthings of the elite 20%.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

Get the fuck over yourself, dude.

Do poor people not go to the store, the doctor's office, any social event (or are you of the mind that if one goes anywhere except work, then it's now a toy and not transportation?), or other innumerable examples.
Do those buses run when they need them to? Do buses run where they need them to, or should they walk a mile or so because they're poor?

lol, so there, motorcycles are a viable means of transportation for the unwashed masses, not just playthings of the elite 20%.

And just to add to what Kevin had to say, for some of us, busses don't run where we work. You can't take a bus from Livermore to Brentwood.
When my Tacoma blew the head gasket the 2nd time, I had to commute to work on my Gixxer. In February. And I didn't have any winter gear. I also couldn't afford to rent a car, because the repairs to the truck took all my moniez.
So yeah... that week? Not a toy.
And, in the past, when I was dirt poor, my only form of transportation was my Nighthawk... and I could barely afford the insurance.

If you've never lived in the suburbs, I guess you probably wouldn't know that busses are not always a viable option for getting to work or school.
Also, one way from Dublin to SF, is $5.70... not $2.00... jes' sayin'...

 

[MrIncredible]

Sure. Assuming you lived in an area without public transportation, and lived and couldn't leave there because a social-economic situation. Otherwise, $2 per bus ride, 10 rides per week, 50 weeks per year is $1,000 per year. It's going to have to be quite the ratty looking motorcycle to beat that. It's rather an unfortunate exception that someone MUST ride to make a living. (Though don't get me started with the free country BS because often times lack of choice and bad luck is all J6P has to look forward to. Just tag along to many volunteering events.)

So there. Motorcycling is (mostly) a hobby. A hobby that mandates us to have proper tyres, headlight, brake lights, blinkers, horn, muffler, eye protection, insurance, registration and dozens of other direct and indirect requirements for its enjoyment. Yet the harp is about something we all agree is smart to have and we are already in "compliance". That is peculiar.

That's macabre.

My first bike was after gas prices spiked and I couldn't afford to gas my truck for the 50+ mile commute.

I picked up a $100 '81 Honda (broken) and fixed the wiring and commuted on it for two years.

Had a helmet and a shitty leather jacket (not a moto one) and work boots. Those things you list aren't common knowledge-I didn't even know about ear plugs, hence after 2 hours a day on a bike for the better part of a few years, I'm now half deaf. Still cheaper'n the bus. Bikes aren't a luxury-cars are.

I'd turn up to work and change my clothes and put the wet ones on the injection molding machines to dry.

Now when it rains I just take my truck.

 

[Marcoose]

Get the fuck over yourself, dude.

BTW, your argumentum ad hominem are getting stronger. I'm starting to feel for my safety around you.

You can't take a bus from Livermore to Brentwood.

No need to explain the reasons you work in Brentwood. These days, one is awfully lucky to have a decent job. We have to go where the food is. And likewise, sometimes the places we live are the best we can do. But for a single person without kids, aging parents and judicial ties to a locale, one can always pick up tent and move. (Sure, easier said than done.)

Cut it however you want, pull isolated anecdotes and momentary discomforts. Motorcycling the in the US is mostly a hobby. If proper tyres and insurance are required to ride a motorcycle, what exactly is the beef with extending that to a minimum standard of jacket, trousers, boots and gloves?

Just for giggles, how much would an alright set of jacket, trousers, boots and gloves cost? Nothing fancy. Just better than dragging skin on asphalt.

And p.s., if you ever need a car for a week, I barely drive mine.

 

[mean dad]

BTW, your argumentum ad hominem are getting stronger. I'm starting to feel for my safety around you.

Please, please show me where I made an ad hominem attack.

Please.

Cut it however you want, pull isolated anecdotes and momentary discomforts. Motorcycling the in the US is mostly a hobby. If proper tyres and insurance are required to ride a motorcycle, what exactly is the beef with extending that to a minimum standard of jacket, trousers, boots and gloves?

Do you have any stats to back up your claim, or did you just pull that out of your...head?

 

[ridin_dirty]

I'll agree with you and go a step further.

If I'm just tooling around town on ~30mph streets, I don't gear up. I've put 20k miles on a bicycle. I've reached speeds of nearly 60mph and routinely hit 30mph. I've done crits and other types of road races where the risk of crash was severe. I've fallen at 20 and at 30mph. Never ever did I leather up to ride a bicycle.

The road rash wasn't pleasant but it wasn't severe either. It did not require any medical costs. Road rash heals on its own. It's just part of life for a bike (bicycle) racer. Bike racers also break collar bones but I was fortunate enough to never have a crash that severe. Regardless, nobody gives a bicyclist shit for not wearing leather and armor.

You may say that motorcycles can be hit by cars regardless of speed and that's true. But so can pedestrians and again, bicycles. In fact, I'd guess that the risk of being hit by a car would be much greater for a bicycle than a motorcycle on any given road. Bicycles are harder to see, harder to hear, are overtaken way more often. They're on inferior tires and have inferior brakes. Yes, they're slower but doing 20 in a 35 is a liability because of the constant overtaking. And again, 30 is not an uncommon speed whenever the road turns downhill or you have a tailwind or you're sprinting.

The one thing I can think of that makes motorcycles at this speed more dangerous than bicycles is that they're much heavier and I don't want one to fall on me. That said, on a 2 mile ride on slow streets to get lunch, when ridden with the vigor of a pensioner hypermiling her Prius, it is possible to guarantee that I'm not going to have a single vehicle accident. My only risk is getting run into by a car. While I consider myself risk-averse, this is a risk I easily live with based on my experiences on a bicycle surviving all that time next to cars and other bike racers (rubbing elbows, locking handlebars, etc).

Leathers are great and I wear them most of the time. But when responses on an issue get so heated, they're usually based on emotion rather than fact. And my hunch is that people are so emotionally attached to the idea of ATGATT, that it's more about perception of risk reduction for something that they know is so dangerous to begin with. We know regardless of attire we risk our lives daily so the leathers allow us to rationalize this decision (yeah, but I'm protected. I wear leather.). You're still risking your life in your way so chill out when someone else risks his life in a slightly different way.