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This is why ABS haters are wrong

Marcoose said:
So there's a piece of researched, developed, tested, implemented, proven and affordable technology that works for all levels of riders and conditions, that is rarely blamed for a crash, yet snubbed at because a small percent of old school riders believe they can outperform such technology. Teh BARF. Go figure.
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would you pay more for it though? e.g. buying 2013 cbr600rr....drop 2 more grand or whatever it is for the one with ABS?
 
Marcoose said:
So there's a piece of researched, developed, tested, implemented, proven and affordable technology that works for all levels of riders and conditions, that is rarely blamed for a crash, yet snubbed at because a small percent of old school riders believe they can outperform such technology. Teh BARF. Go figure.
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I am not sure this is accurate. I think only one person has actually denounced ABS altogether. The following post may summarize some thoughts that experienced riders might have. I have zero experience with ABS on a motorcycle. I have experience with it in automobiles. Some of those experiences I didn't like. Others, it really didn't make much of a difference. :dunno
asthmodeus said:
which is all good, but then you'll have a bunch of fearless kids knowing they have an electronic safety net and will likely have just as many if not more crashes from people exceeding their own limits as opposed to the bikes limits.
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As I already stated, I LIKE having complete control. I grew up with two strokes, and riding knobbied dirt bikes on the street, so precise throttle control and braking with poor traction may be more engrained into my riding psyche. I can't judge someone's else mindset, just my own. :dunno

Afm199 will tell you my throttle control sucks, but what the hell does he know. :x
 
I really haven't seen much snubbing of the tech in this thread. Most of us "old school" guys seem to agree with Ernie's cake analogy, in which ABS is seen as a good thing. :dunno
 
russ69 said:
How do you know where the limit is if you don't exceed it?
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tzrider said:
You can feel ABS trigger.
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Hold on a second, you're making a HUGE assumption here - that the ABS triggers when the limit is exceeded, and not before then.

This may or may not be the case, depending on how good your ABS is and on conditions. If you're braking on a wet, slippery surface and your ABS is awesome, your assumption might be correct. If you're braking on a dry, clean surface, and your ABS sucks, your assumption is most likely false, because the ABS will trigger well before the limit (which is why good riders outperform ABS in good conditions).

If you're really trying to learn how to brake, especially in the dry, you will eventually learn better on a non-ABS bike.
 
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Tharkûn said:
What happens when you haven't developed those riding skills yet?

I missed this edit, you couldn't see that I was making fun of those most famous anti abs rider on barf? Try reading it like Captain Kirk



This whole post is one or the other. People who crashed are just shitty riders, Id rather be good than need abs, if you depend on it you won't learn :blah

I'm not continuing this, ride safe
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Those are your inferences, not what I said. Sorry.
 
Marcoose said:
So there's a piece of researched, developed, tested, implemented, proven and affordable technology that works for all levels of riders and conditions, that is rarely blamed for a crash, yet snubbed at because a small percent of old school riders believe they can outperform such technology. Teh BARF. Go figure.
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Who snubbed ABS specifically and where? Just wondering if this is correct or reading miscomprehension.
 
Marcoose said:
So there's a piece of researched, developed, tested, implemented, proven and affordable technology that works for all levels of riders and conditions, that is rarely blamed for a crash, yet snubbed at because a small percent of old school riders believe they can outperform such technology. Teh BARF. Go figure.
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No one is "snubbing" ABS. Some people just understand the limitations of the technology better than others.
 
Here is some information from my buddy who works in the traffic crash business....

There are three levels of motorcycle rider braking....

The Motorcycle Consumer News testers (60-0). These guys consistently develop 0.85 - 1.1 g stopping rate.

Motorcycle cops... they have been tested by the collision reconstruction community and they consistently develop 0.7-0.75 g stopping rate

Average riders...tested by Muttart, Guderian et al of average riders on a roadway course showed and average 0.43 g.

A braking study was done by NHTSA using a motorcycle simulator to determine what type of rider... sport rider to touring rider to cruiser rider... did the best at braking. Here is the shocking conclusions.... none is any better than the other. But they also did an emergency braking situatioin in this testing that only required 0.6 g to avoid the hazard.... 2/3rds of the riders failed. In other words, on 1/3rd of the riders were able to brake at 0.6g.

So what does this really mean in the long run.... the vast majority of riders CANNOT effectively brake a motorcycle to maximum braking.... said another way, most of us... including me... do not brake as well as we think we do. So in order to get the best braking possible in and emergency situation... all of my motorcycles have ABS.

This is what my friend says and I know his motorcycles, and yes all of them have ABS, the two he rides the most also have TC.
 
MCSFTGUY said:
A braking study was done by NHTSA using a motorcycle simulator to determine what type of rider... sport rider to touring rider to cruiser rider... did the best at braking. Here is the shocking conclusions.... none is any better than the other. But they also did an emergency braking situatioin in this testing that only required 0.6 g to avoid the hazard.... 2/3rds of the riders failed. In other words, on 1/3rd of the riders were able to brake at 0.6g.
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Fortunately, almost riders believe that they are in the top 33% with respect to skill level. Just as almost all parents believe that their kids are above average. That said, data from a test performed on a simulator, using a limited number of riders is not terribly convincing.
 
MCSFTGUY said:
So what does this really mean in the long run.... the vast majority of riders CANNOT effectively brake a motorcycle to maximum braking....
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Except for Lou and I... :party
 
OK but is that lesson go buy ABS or is that lesson GO PRACTICE PANIC BRAKING
 
jdan007 said:
OK but is that lesson go buy ABS or is that lesson GO PRACTICE PANIC BRAKING
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Why does a rider have to choose? Every rider should absolutely be skilled in "panic" braking. Almost every rider could benefit from ABS on the street. No reason to choose one or the other. That said, the benefits of building skills are arguably larger than the benefits of ABS.
 
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russ69 said:
In that case you are approaching the limit but you still have a little way to go.
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Being realistic, it's close enough for a human being and there are accompanying sensations that would be there with or without ABS that tell you you're near the limit.
 
Lunch Box said:
Why does a rider have to choose? Every rider should absolutely be skilled in "panic" braking. Almost every rider could benefit from ABS on the street. No reason to choose one or the other. That said, the benefits of building skills are arguably larger than the benefits of ABS.
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agreed not trying to say they are exclusive to one another, whatever makes you safer on the street go do it all

maybe also because ive never had a crash that i think abs would have helped me out of im kinda o.0 about the value of it
 
Aruna said:
See this is what I don't get - there are supposed to be disadvantages to ABS (or so I have been led to believe). What are they, and how are they not legitimate? Please explain to this noob. :laughing
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The argument against ABS is the same argument against condoms.
 
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