Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
Same here.
I am not a brand fan and only own bikes that suit my needs. Yes I miss and loved my 675 but when coming home from a 400+ mile ride the RT will be more comfy while achieve what the 675 did plus more.
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Those new R1200GS look kinda cool.....
- Thread starter Ant
- Start date
Same here.
I am not a brand fan and only own bikes that suit my needs. Yes I miss and loved my 675 but when coming home from a 400+ mile ride the RT will be more comfy while achieve what the 675 did plus more.
Gary856
Are we having fun yet?
The GS gets a pile of ire from me because it'd be sitting in my garage right now if not for that fucking 19 inch front.
You can write a book about how you don't like the GS w/ the 19" front in theory, and that it's not a sport bike, and that it's not a dirt bike, but it hardly change the fact that the GS works brilliantly in the real world, and is hugely popular for good reasons.
Z3n
Squid.
You mean a dakar bike?
Buy another ktm 1290, sell both of those and then buy this for the same amount. They're limited run production bikes, offered by ktm as a turnkey race bike for $40k-ish. Ive seen photos with lic plates but i dunno.
also, i thought this was interesting. Icon took a pair of Tiger 800's on dakar, destroyed the tranny on one, the shock mount on the other, and the clutch on both. They're not built for dirty dirt without lots and lots and lots of modifications to overcome the load that excess weight puts on everything.
[youtube]aTvYAcJOx3s[/youtube]
Nope, Dakar truck - massive, overpowered, but with the appropriate equipment for what it's set up to do. In the case of the Dakar trucks, they have massive travel, giant wheels to get them through all kinds of stuff, and loads of storage. In the case of the bike I'd want, it'd be road focused, so 17s, massive travel for potholes and other such stuff, and enough space to easily ride 2 up for 800+ miles in a day.
Also, I wonder how many folks who are preaching at the choir of the 19 inch front have ridden a bike that has significant front suspension travel and properly set up geometry (most sumos don't even come close to that), and have ridden one up a goaty road. Having blasted down a bunch of roads on bikes with 19 inch and 17 inch fronts, the setup will have a much more significant effect on rideability than tire size - tire size just slows the steering down, compensating wonderfully for people doing things like stiffarming the bars, and compromising quick side to side turns. However, the key "benefit" of a larger front wheel is that it deflects less, but this just means that you're putting more strain on the front contact patch as it's harder for the wheel to move naturally way with the pavement. I think that's a lot of what people are experiencing when they talk about stability.
It's hugely popular because dentists dream of being those guys. Same way sportbike riders buy sportbikes and never take them to the track, they're dreaming of being Marquez. The folks really doing trips like that without a support van and shit are doing them on DRZs, 690 Enduros, etc.
On the 19 inch front, let's look at the basics: It's heavier and turns slower. Some people like the "stability" of the motorcycle not being maneuverable, but if you want it stable, do it in geometry, don't do it by adding weight to the front wheel.
And to be quite honest - it works well because most people are completely unaware that there is any sort of alternative. The good thing about those bikes is basically entirely wrapped up in the 100% suspension travel and design (expressly not supersport focused) and seating position.
Let's just put it this way - if you could buy a R1200GS that weighed 150 pounds less, and had 17s front and rear, higher spec brakes, everyone would buy that one. Because for nearly every rider, if you rode the 2 back to back, you'd prefer the lighter bike with the 17s, even for offroad riding. If you want a true ADV bike, go buy an 1190 R, with the proper 21 inch front for offroad. But the GS just uses it's 19 inch front to justify bullshit offroad pretensions while none of the rest of the bike's design backs it up. That's why it drives me crazy: it's a styling choice, like 16 inch fronts and rears on harleys, rather than a practical one.
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sckego
doesn't like crashing
The reality is I'm fucking bitter that there's no long travel suspension bike with TC and ABS available from the factory with 17s that's big enough to comfortably handle long 2 up rides. The GS gets a pile of ire from me because it'd be sitting in my garage right now if not for that fucking 19 inch front.
I just purchased the exact bike you described...
Z3n
Squid.
Multistroodles don't count 
I was actually hoping the XR1000R is the bike that fixes all of this - I wasn't actually aware until right now that it's legit going into production. If the gas mileage on it doesn't suck, it'll be a great choice.
Edit: Oh, right, the reason the XR is silly is cause it's still about 3 inches of travel short of perfection.
I was actually hoping the XR1000R is the bike that fixes all of this - I wasn't actually aware until right now that it's legit going into production. If the gas mileage on it doesn't suck, it'll be a great choice.
Edit: Oh, right, the reason the XR is silly is cause it's still about 3 inches of travel short of perfection.
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Z3n
Squid.
We've got active electronic suspension on most of the big "adventure" bikes already - suspension isn't the issue.
Also the point isn't to get it "heavy", it's to get it as light as possible. The 1190 ADV shows that it can be done for around 500 pounds, and that this is massively overbuilt for "ADV". Give me a lighter weight 1290 SuperAdventure with 17s and the Superduke spec brakes, capacity for luggage, and a bit less heft, and that's about the perfect bike.
You can't really put down 1190 power on that skinny 160 anyways without it spinning, the 1290 is going to be even worse.
Also the point isn't to get it "heavy", it's to get it as light as possible. The 1190 ADV shows that it can be done for around 500 pounds, and that this is massively overbuilt for "ADV". Give me a lighter weight 1290 SuperAdventure with 17s and the Superduke spec brakes, capacity for luggage, and a bit less heft, and that's about the perfect bike.
You can't really put down 1190 power on that skinny 160 anyways without it spinning, the 1290 is going to be even worse.
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Ant
Pink Freud
Z3n
Squid.
Nope, you can't. Some S-T rubber is adapted to the 19 inch fronts, but you're also talking about loss of contact patch size, etc.
The advantage is that modern tires are so good you can get away with murder even on the 19 front, but that's bandaiding an imperfect solution.
The advantage is that modern tires are so good you can get away with murder even on the 19 front, but that's bandaiding an imperfect solution.
Ant
Pink Freud
Gary856
Are we having fun yet?
Boney already answered your question... Unless you're racing against sportbikes on the track for money and glory, the differences between 17" and 19" front are mostly in your head.
The NEW Vstrom 1000 is Reallllly Big but,looks good (to me). The new 1000 4 cylinder versys is pretty cool as well. I have a 2005 boxercup that I will Never sell. It does nothing great but,does everything very well....
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Z3n
Squid.
Boney already answered your question... Unless you're racing against sportbikes on the track for money and glory, the differences between 17" and 19" front are mostly in your head.
Everyone notices a lighter front wheel. It's why people swear by lightweight rims. If you add another 5 pounds of weight onto your front wheel, you're going to notice it immediately. Without a back to back comparison you might feel like it doesn't matter, but that's just a lack of experience with differentiating between geometry, suspension stability, and wheel weight. I dropped maybe a pound of weight off the front of my 1290 by putting on the powerparts rotors, and it was immediately noticeable in a lighter, easier steering, to the point I had to adjust how much input I was giving because I overturned the first few corners.
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squid vicious
nomnomnomnom
Interestingly, one of the common complaints with the new GS is how light the steering feels. Some folks just don't like it.
I rode it back to back with the my old MTS, the new MTS, and the KTM 1190. The MTS was the slowest steering of the bunch (which surprised me).
Ant, do yourself a favor and go ride the GS. The new LC boxer is sweet, and the bike is extremely light on its feet. Even clutching through the parking lot 2 up was like riding a bicycle.
Don't be concerned with tires, the PRs are available in sizes that fit
Ant
Pink Freud
Gary856
Are we having fun yet?
I own different bikes and love all their differences (which is the point of owning different bikes), but I'm not caught up by "which one is better". It's the same way that I can enjoy a good movie whether I see it in a IMAX theater w/ 3D and awesome surround sound, or on an iPad while sharing a headset with my wife. You notice the differences at first, but once you get engrossed in it the differences fade into the background.
The enjoyment of riding is determined by much more than wheel size, weight and even performance. If the bike feels good overall, the technical details are just background noise (to most people).
Ant
Pink Freud
Never owned a bike that had mismatched wheel sizes so for me it's just picking the brains of those who have experience and possibly learning something before taking a plunge. Still in tire kicking mode so to be continued.
Z3n
Squid.
Depends on the approach you have - I'm of the stance that choosing some basic constraints (like wheel size) based on image rather than the planned usage of the bike isn't the sort of design compromise I want to accept in a relatively high risk activity like motorcycle. It's fine on a show bike, not fine on a new bike that I'm splashing out 15k+ for. Basically, I'm not down to pay IMAX prices for iPad experiences.
I mean, there is an advantage in steering speed when you have less contact patch, but I'm not exactly driven to put a bicycle front tire on the thing to get it to steer faster.
The thing about light steering bikes is that they don't forgive poor rider technique, so it can really accentuate if a rider has been stiffarming the bars or doesn't feel comfortable. Heavy steering can give the illusion of stability, but you're just making it more difficult for the bike to naturally self correct.
squid vicious
nomnomnomnom
Gonna go see about a test ride Saturday
Nothing Z3n is saying about the 19" front is technically wrong, it's just not an issue for what this bike is for. As you approach higher speeds the additional weight and gyroscopic forces WILL be noticable. Combine that with a lack of true sport rubber for the wheel size and you'll have a hard time chasing the 2 minute mark at Thunderhill. But for the remaining 99% of the time the 19" is either not an issue at all or actually has some advantages, for example tracking a little more stable over less than racetrack smooth pavement.
But if you're chasing a 17" wheeled bike down your favorite road and it's walking away from you, it's not the 19" wheel, you're simply being out ridden.
Archimedes
Fire Watcher
This is a great sound bite, but it's just not true. People buy the GS for exactly what it is, a great all around bike that can do everything from commuting, to touring, to light off road work to canyon carving. And, at least the new bike, does all of those very, very well.
And the 19" tire thing being a problem on the street is a joke. A good rider can absolutely strafe a twisty road on this bike, on 19's, with spokes, with dual sport tires. I know a guy who could probably lose any BARFER in the hills on their sportbikes on his aircooled GS with knobbies. The difference in feel and front end trust required on the new bike and a Multi or a sport bike with 17s is overblown. And a very small tradeoff for how much easier the bike is able to ride everywhere else.
The new GS is an amazing motorcycle and worth every penny they sell it for. And it has little to do with the LWR nonsense.