ThunderHill 600 Time?

[Cody]

I was being sarcastic.

The bottom line is that if you don't have the ability to ride sub 2:00 at T-Hill, you won't do it on *any* bike.

Also tracktime is a far better investment for most riders than a bike. The 2-3 seconds that I might, probably wouldn't, get out of the horsepower, decreased weight and better chassis would be nothinhttp://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif
Exclamationg compared to the time that I'd gain by doing a full season of trackdays at a lower cost than a new bike. It's not until you get well into the 50's (at T-Hill) that the bike starts to make enough of a difference to justify spending money on it.

+1. I've always felt it was 90% rider and 10% bike. Every time Shawn passes me 2-up that just reinforces my feeling.

-Cody

 

[Yody]

I was being sarcastic.

The bottom line is that if you don't have the ability to ride sub 2:00 at T-Hill, you won't do it on *any* bike.

Also tracktime is a far better investment for most riders than a bike. The 2-3 seconds that I might, probably wouldn't, get out of the horsepower, decreased weight and better chassis would be nothing compared to the time that I'd gain by doing a full season of trackdays at a lower cost than a new bike. It's not until you get well into the 50's (at T-Hill) that the bike starts to make enough of a difference to justify spending money on it.

Also check out Riad Nader in last year's 600 standings. He was rocking the 03 Yamaha all year AFAIK.

Anyhow to get back to the OP's question, yes is the answer. Congratulations if you're the rider in question.

I was addressing what Hitman was most likely talking about which is that for the top riders in the 600 class, laptimes have been decreasing since the introduction of faster more stable bikes over the years. Of course a fancy bike won't do much for a novice . Coming from my F4I to my newer RR hasn't made me any faster(yet) but it has given me way less "oh shit" moments and allows me to go a similar pace much more comfortably and without working as hard, which I believe in the future is going to allow me to go even faster and with a greater safety margin.

Lowering your laptimes IMO is about improving your lines to get better drives out of turns, being able to go into turns faster and later on the brakes, riding more consistently, being able to open the throttle sooner, stand the bike up sooner etc.......

I don't necessarily think a newer better bike will improve those things however those things all come with being more comfortable on the bike or being smoother etc. A more stable platform is going to give you more comfort which will help make you smoother which in turn "can" help you go faster. Of course its up to the rider to put all the pieces of the puzzle together which may or may not happen. However having a newer bike gives you the platform to do it with.

 

[Yody]

+1. I've always felt it was 90% rider and 10% bike. Every time Shawn passes me 2-up that just reinforces my feeling.

-Cody

So you were going as fast on your SV as you are on your 1000? (I'm sure its quite possible)

 

[hitman5532]

ok, so here is to clarify my question to the OP.

I asked because I have no idea what 600 he is on .... 88 ninja ? 08 600rr? seca II ?

While anyone who knows me knows I am a firm beleiver of the rider is the key. The available limit for the bikes is the variable. Even Valentino cant get a seca II to run as well as a 600rr. I am not even refering to power as much as i am refering to chassis flex, geometry, and suspension.

While none of us are to valentino's level, it does take a lot more work (riding ability) to get a bike designed more for all around use (f3 for example) than it is for one race ready out of the box (600rr).

Manufactures use to develop bikes for the street and than race them, and now they build a race bike and tone it down for street. But the inherited frame, stability, and ease of high speed control is dramaticly different.

I asked simply as a clairification. 2minute lap on a f2 is much more of an accomplishment than on a 08 600rr. So when the OP was asking how fast he was... it was a qualifying question

that is all

 

[runamok27]

Sub 2:00 minute laps at Thunderhill is extremely fast and the vast majority of track day riders will never get that fast, on any bike. At any given track day, barring racers, pretty much no one is lapping that fast. From what I have seen a lot of folks can get down to about 2:05 but then the improvements start getting much smaller (timewise) and they become very difficult to achieve (not to mention more dangerous which, I think, is the biggest reason most people are unwilling to go any faster).

The vast majority of track day riders go out there to have fun and ride as fast as they can in a safe manner and, in my opinion, if you want to push your lap times to a fast racer pace you better be willing to risk crashing because you are now pushing your pace too close to the limits and crashing is just the cost of doing business when riding at that pace.

 

[Yody]

I don't think you're guaranteed to crash but you must have enough experience where losing traction on both front and/or rear tires is not going to be a huge suprise, among other things like near-highsides etc etc. Its better to sneak up on these things rather than one happen to you out of nowhere leaving you with no skills to deal with it.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

I don't believe for a second that you have to crash to go that fast. I believe you're riding with less margin for error but if you go about it the right way there's no reason to crash.

Just look at the fast AFM guys. They don't crash on their own a whole lot despite being fast enough to qualify for AMA events.

 

[Yody]

I don't believe for a second that you have to crash to go that fast. I believe you're riding with less margin for error but if you go about it the right way there's no reason to crash.

Just look at the fast AFM guys. They don't crash on their own a whole lot despite being fast enough to qualify for AMA events.

Plenty of fast AFM'rs crash, I "think" its the ones with more experience under their belts that can pull consistent fast laptimes without crashing. However I agree with your point and why you mentioned that

 

[McBride61]

A few weeks ago I was there and timed (with my phone) one session of A group and the fastest person was 2:01 and the slowest was 2:09. I tried to find the fastest and slowest guy. This was a trackday and I have no idea if it was the fastest and/or slowest riders I was timing. But IMO anything under 2:10 on a trackday at TH is flying ballz!

 

[Ratters]

The one thing I really enjoy about bikes at the track is that it truly exemplifies the phrase "It's the poor craftsman who blames his tools." Yeah, you can go faster on a newer or more powerful bike but up to a fast B or slow A pace skill matters much more than the bike itself. A great rider on a faster bike will go faster than a great rider on a slower bike, but a great rider will go much faster on a slower bike than a less skilled rider will go on a faster bike. I really enjoyed that period in my trackday learning when I was finally able to lose people on liter bikes on my pretty much stock '02 ZX6. That focus and importance of skill what makes bikes so enjoyable to me.

 

[Z3n]

Sub 2:10 on a modern 600 is a good time. A group cutoff for most providers is around 2:15.

Sub 2 mins is flying.

If you want to make up time, work on the fast areas and say screw the slow areas. Easiest places to make up time are getting a good drive/cornerspeed through 6/7/8, and over 9 down the long straight. Turn 14/15 is VERY important to a good time. I changed my line a bit through there and picked up almost 10mph down the front straight. I spent 5 days there almost back to back a month ago and went from 2:20s or so on my first day to 2:06s on my last. 2 of those days were the Keigwins intermediate school, which was an immense help.

 

[runamok27]

I don't believe for a second that you have to crash to go that fast. I believe you're riding with less margin for error but if you go about it the right way there's no reason to crash.

Just look at the fast AFM guys. They don't crash on their own a whole lot despite being fast enough to qualify for AMA events.

Really? How many of the fast AFMer's have NEVER crashed? How many AMA racers have NEVER crashed? I would bet, NONE.

The best riders in the world crash multiple times every year because they are pushing their limits to go faster. If you, me or anyone out there does the same YOU WILL CRASH, period.

 

[ucb]

same goes for the race cars that hit the same tracks. If you havn't spun, put 4 wheels off the track, or put it into a barrier, you aren't pushing it hard at all

When you are pushing to the very limits of traction, mistakes are bound to be made

 

[billswim]

The one thing I really enjoy about bikes at the track is that it truly exemplifies the phrase "It's the poor craftsman who blames his tools." Yeah, you can go faster on a newer or more powerful bike but up to a fast B or slow A pace skill matters much more than the bike itself. A great rider on a faster bike will go faster than a great rider on a slower bike, but a great rider will go much faster on a slower bike than a less skilled rider will go on a faster bike. I really enjoyed that period in my trackday learning when I was finally able to lose people on liter bikes on my pretty much stock '02 ZX6. That focus and importance of skill what makes bikes so enjoyable to me.

That's one of the many reasons I like rockin' the 250! That and it's a REAL exotic. I will probably never race so lap times are pretty abstract for me. I really enjoy chasing down guys on 600s and 1000s. I take great pleasure going around the outside of guys in turns 2 and 3 esp.

 

[Daredevil]

Sub 2:10 on a modern 600 is a good time. A group cutoff for most providers is around 2:15.

Sub 2 mins is flying.

If you want to make up time, work on the fast areas and say screw the slow areas. Easiest places to make up time are getting a good drive/cornerspeed through 6/7/8, and over 9 down the long straight. Turn 14/15 is VERY important to a good time. I changed my line a bit through there and picked up almost 10mph down the front straight. I spent 5 days there almost back to back a month ago and went from 2:20s or so on my first day to 2:06s on my last. 2 of those days were the Keigwins intermediate school, which was an immense help.

on a sv no less folks

conan can FLY

 

[Archimedes]

Great thread. I just went from an 07 600RR to the new 1000RR (not for the reasons you'd think) and I'm expecting that my lap times will likely go up on the literbike, not down. I think it's gonna be hard for a B group rider like me to get anything more out of the 1000 than I could out of my 600, and quite possibly I'll get less as I adjust to the power differences.

 

[Z3n]

Great thread. I just went from an 07 600RR to the new 1000RR (not for the reasons you'd think) and I'm expecting that my lap times will likely go up on the literbike, not down. I think it's gonna be hard for a B group rider like me to get anything more out of the 1000 than I could out of my 600, and quite possibly I'll get less as I adjust to the power differences.

I had a really, really hard time going fast on my 929...unfortunantly, I also found that my 929 was a lot less fun to flog around the track because I wasn't capable of capitalizing on it. Still, as long as you're having fun, who cares what the lap times are? Just remember to capitalize on the good part of the bike...the throttle Also, I'm intensely jealous you have a badass bike like that!


Daredevil's like my cheerleader. I wouldn't be able to go fast without him.

 

[BohnJerntsen]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I too think it's 90% rider. Last AFM round at T-Hill a 1993 Honda 450. LOHMEYER, MICHAEL G. Hon93 2:00:100

Really good rider on an older, small bike.

 

[Yody]

Sub 2:10 on a modern 600 is a good time. A group cutoff for most providers is around 2:15.

Sub 2 mins is flying.

If you want to make up time, work on the fast areas and say screw the slow areas. Easiest places to make up time are getting a good drive/cornerspeed through 6/7/8, and over 9 down the long straight. Turn 14/15 is VERY important to a good time. I changed my line a bit through there and picked up almost 10mph down the front straight. I spent 5 days there almost back to back a month ago and went from 2:20s or so on my first day to 2:06s on my last. 2 of those days were the Keigwins intermediate school, which was an immense help.

Holy shit, 5 days in a row

 

[Daredevil]

i refuse to go to single track days

i always tie mine together at least two in a row, preferably 3.

i think i've done a 1 day track day once.


by the session after lunch im just getting back to where i was last time.