• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

VW "Clean" Diesel not really clean

CoorsLight said:
Yep, because everyone in the US knows that these regulations only exist because the EPA is trying to dismantle industry and kill the economy.
Click to expand...

Don't know about everyone, but one person does:

jigabeer said:
Well, reason for that is because its run by people who can't make it in the real world.
failure on all counts in the financial or engineering world. these are the ones that can't invent to save their live and have to "test" other companies.

its whoever pays the most get the expected testing result. been like that forever and will never change. just under the cover of clean environment.

who really cares about NOx, until 5 days ago the majority in the sink never heard about that term and all of a sudden people are experts in emission after treatment:laughing
Click to expand...
 
Archimedes said:
Pure highway driving or super slow, super early shifting in town and you'll get close to the specs on the window sticker. But few people drive anything like that most of the time. Few, if any cars, will match the mixed driving number on the window sticker in normal driving conditions. And that's not the manufacturers fault. It's the regulators fault for designing meaningless test protocols that should have been changed years ago.
Click to expand...

:dunno

Whatever.
I think it's actually other drivers can't drive and usually waste fuel that leads to go outside of the EPA-shown numbers.

German cars usually have a higher reputation to sticking to the published MPG numbers, than those of any other country, when purely looking at numbers (emissions NWS ahaha)

You're actually pandering for lowering standards because of "totals of other people"? The "masses"??? Is that like the same what you'd want in schools for example? I kinda think you've posted the opposite.

On the other hand maybe some traffic flows and patterns should be adjusted for less of what I call 'stop and go driving' (as compared to stop and go traffic)
 
I don't know how important it is that the EPA consumption test are totally accurate in the real world as long as they are consistent across different vehicles. The number is a lot less important than whether its more or less than another vehicle.

Driving conditions and styles are so variable that expecting the EPA results to be useful for anything except comparison purposes is kind of silly. Pretty sure it even says something along these lines right on the sticker.
 
Aren't all emissions components require to be under warranty for 100,000 miles/10 years in CA?

Seems like that could be a big problem for VW if passing emissions causes early failure.
 
Archimedes said:
On the highway or in true mixed driving? I'm not surprised you'll see them in highway driving. Mix in a bunch of city, suburban driving, there's no way unless you drive like a Grandma and short shift everywhere.

It all comes down to how you drive and few people drive the way the cars are driving during the EPA testing regimen.
Click to expand...

I flogged that car hard. Shifted at a minimum of 4K. 25 MPG for mixed driving was average for me. I never used Fuelly but I absolutely did the math every time I filled up.

bpw said:
Aren't all emissions components require to be under warranty for 100,000 miles/10 years in CA?
Click to expand...

I've never heard that before. Where'd you see/hear this?
 
Yeah I'm only used to the heavy duty stuff and that's 5 years 150,000 miles. 10 years seemed crazy but hey, you learn something new every day!
 
Archimedes said:
They improved it, but its still not a real world driving protocol. There is still a material gap between the real world and the EPA test numbers. I track our mileage and I'm never within 15% of the EPA test numbers on any of the six cars we own.
Click to expand...


Speeding will kill your MPGs. So if the real world is speeding for you, you are not going to get the EPA rating. Remember that air resistance is exponential relative to speed. Using the brake too much will lower your MPGs.

The EPA duty cycles will go up to 70 MPH, but people still drive on average faster. I think the EPA test is fine.

I drive around the speed limit and I have not problem getting over the EPA rating in my Honda.
 
Last edited:
Mr. White said:
Some cars (PZEV) originally sold in CA have 10 year / 150K mile warranty on emissions parts. Most emissions components have a 3 year / 50K mile warranty. Catalytic converters have an 8 year / 80K mile warranty.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/warranty.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification, I had remembered the 100,000/10 in relation to Prius batteries.
 
54ca9fb211938_-_fueleconomylabel_large_0410-de.jpg


Note the bold letters on the bottom right. The EPA is not trying to guess how you drive, just provide a standard measure to allow comparison between cars.
 
CoorsLight said:
Yep, because everyone in the US knows that these regulations only exist because the EPA is trying to dismantle industry and kill the economy.
Click to expand...

And gasoline sellers have bought and destroyed the 150 mpg carburator, or are keeping manufacturers from using it.
 
VW announced a fix they will roll out in October. No details. A fix means no buyback it seems.

I'll avoid the fix as long as possible. Not going let them add unproven parts that can ruin mpg/performance and fail down the road. If this fix comes with some $$$ attached and warranties extended to 120k miles, I might think about it.
 
Killroy1999 said:
Speeding will kill your MPGs. So if the real world is speeding for you, you are not going to get the EPA rating. Remember that air resistance is exponential relative to speed. Using the brake too much will lower your MPGs.

The EPA duty cycles will go up to 70 MPH, but people still drive on average faster. I think the EPA test is fine.

I drive around the speed limit and I have not problem getting over the EPA rating in my Honda.
Click to expand...

And you're pretty much alone in that, as almost every driver out there speeds constantly in their driving. And it's not just speeding, it's how fast you get to that speed; mash that accelerator and your mileage goes straight in the shitter. That's the real world for a large percentage of drivers.

Like I said, if you drive like a Grandma, which is what the testing protocols mimic, you will get the EPA mileage. If you don't, you won't. I've seen it in every car I've owned and both the magazines and Consumer Reports have studied this and found the same thing. EPA ratings are nonsense for most drivers. The typical owner can expect 10-20% worse than the EPA rating in mixed driving. In my RS5, I can swing my mileage from 18 all the way down to 12 just by the way I drive.
 
Dubbington said:
VW announced a fix they will roll out in October. No details. A fix means no buyback it seems.

I'll avoid the fix as long as possible. Not going let them add unproven parts that can ruin mpg/performance and fail down the road. If this fix comes with some $$$ attached and warranties extended to 120k miles, I might think about it.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that but I'd imagine there will be some pressure on VW from the EPA and from VW to owners to get every car addressed ASAP. How they can/will do that, I don't know.
I am at 40k miles, out of warranty and due for a moderate service interval. I am holding off on it and waiting to see how this shit plays out before putting a dime into the car.
If I do service it, I will go independent to avoid the fix until there is some feedback on it.
What a PITA I didn't need. I was very happy with the car, even with all the talk of poor VW reliability I was confident in it, but this is just total BS. :thumbdown
 
^^ I'm doing that 40k service this weekend myself. DSG filter & oil, fuel filter, air filter and cabin filter change. Didnt look tough youtubes and parts are were only $200 shipped including vw specific engine oil and filter I'll need in 5k miles.

I bought a funnel and plan to do the top fill method, filling trans through the filter hole instead pumping through trans drain plug (more difficult). Measure amount drained and replace with that amount + 1/3 a liter.

If all goes well I'll let you know, wouldnt be hard to tackle it and save $400+. Dealers charge $600-$1,000 for it I heard. Three hour job I read.

rwj69g.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top