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VW "Clean" Diesel not really clean

Marcoose said:
Perhaps because the manufacturer grossly cheated on a major component that renders said final product perhaps illegal to operate?

It's like those folk in Florida finding out the developers knew there was a sinkhole underneath the house. Would you buy that house?
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If they fix the problem (sinkhole) then I don't see the beef. There are plenty of POS cars out there whos resale isn't high because they're junk. Obviously if the vehicle is now down on MPG because of it they need to address that, which i'm assuming the lawsuit does, and same with the power. Resale value is grasping for straws though, that's not guaranteed on any vehicle.
 
I think a key point here is 'perhaps illegal'.

Well it's not illegal right now is it? Any cars stopped off the road?
No. In fact some owners are still liking the 'modded' car.
 
JesasaurusRex said:
Why would the manufacturer be responsible for resale value?
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Because they intentionally sold a vehicle with fraudulent claims. We bought these cars for the gas mileage and higher resale value diesel cars typically have.

After this fix, the gas mileage will go down. No telling what the maintenance would be since there's no long term road studies AND the reputation has been shot. All hurting resale value.
 
Dubbington said:
Because they intentionally sold a vehicle with fraudulent claims. We bought these cars for the gas mileage and higher resale value diesel cars typically have.

After this fix, the gas mileage will go down. No telling what the maintenance would be since there's no long term road studies AND the reputation has been shot. All hurting resale value.
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You were never promissed a specific resale value, nobody was. You were promissed MPG numbers and power numbers which may or may not be affected negatively. You should be compensated for that, completely agree, the resale is stupid though imo.
 
^^ There should be a buy back of what I paid, take the car back. The 'resale' term I refer to is they should give owners higher than current kelly blue book since (if KBB adjusts that quickly) because resale value has significantly gone down. MPG will suffer, we know that. I bought a car with certain specs, those specs were false and I should be compensated.
 
JesasaurusRex said:
You were never promissed a specific resale value, nobody was.
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True, but there's a baseline from the day before the scandal was unveiled. The same model now lost (100%? of) its value exclusively from manufacturer's doings. (Or has it?) If the pollution problem can't be fixed at the expense of other features, the lost of value should be on the manufacturers, especially because vehicles are durable goods. Otherwise, what a splendid business to be in; put out a product, no recourse if it doesn't meet the marketed (and unspoken) features.
 
Dubbington said:
^^ There should be a buy back of what I paid, take the car back. The 'resale' term I refer to is they should give owners higher than current kelly blue book since (if KBB adjusts that quickly) because resale value has significantly gone down. MPG will suffer, we know that. I bought a car with certain specs, those specs were false and I should be compensated.
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How very American of you. :laughing

Feel free to jump on the class-action lawsuit bandwagon that is no doubt already under way. Just don't get butthurt when you get the equivalent of nothing from the outcome.
 
Someone buys something from a reputable company and their specs are clearly a big reason for their popularity, but then the consumer finds out there is something shady about the way those numbers are generated and then wants to void the transaction...how is this American?

Never mind, I was mistakenly assuming a negative connotation with the word "American", but you're right, it is American as we don't like being duped/scammed/deceived/etc.
 
byke said:
Someone buys something from a reputable company and their specs are clearly a big reason for their popularity, but then the consumer finds out there is something shady about the way those numbers are generated and then wants to void the transaction...how is this American?

Never mind, I was mistakenly assuming a negative connotation with the word "American", but you're right, it is American as we don't like being duped/scammed/deceived/etc.
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No, the "American" part is the "give me money because you fucked up" mentality. It's always about money in this country.

Firstly, if you're going to make the assertion that they "knew about it", you'd better be prepared to prove that in court. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people outside those directly involved with the production of that software didn't actually know about it at all. You can't say that the people that built or even sold you the car are responsible because of that. The reality is that there's no possible way that everyone at VAG could've possibly known about the software changes.

Secondly, I can pretty much guarantee that even if VAG were to completely fix the issue and the mileage and performance were still at acceptable levels if not the same, American owners would still hold out their hand and demand money. Sorry, I don't agree with that shit. MPG ratings are not guaranteed and frankly neither are the horsepower and torque numbers of your engine.
 
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Kornholio said:
How very American of you. :laughing

Feel free to jump on the class-action lawsuit bandwagon that is no doubt already under way. Just don't get butthurt when you get the equivalent of nothing from the outcome.
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I'm not sure you're aware of the size and scope of this case.

2e0ad81.jpg
 
Dubbington said:
I'm not sure you're aware of the size and scope of this case.

2e0ad81.jpg
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I'm not sure you understand that I don't care. What you said strikes a chord with me. I despise tort abuse. I'm not saying they've adequately addressed the issue but the "I demand compensation" attitude really pisses me off regardless of the situation.
 
Kornholio said:
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people outside those directly involved with the production of that software didn't actually know about it at all.
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Kenneth Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, and Andrew Fastow defended their cases on the idea of being too far removed from the shenanigans below. They were all found guilty and did time, with exception of Lay that died before his sentence began.

Sure, not everybody was a crook. But under further examination, soooo many knew of what was going on.
 
Kornholio said:
Firstly, if you're going to make the assertion that they "knew about it", you'd better be prepared to prove that in court. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people outside those directly involved with the production of that software didn't actually know about it at all. You can't say that the people that built or even sold you the car are responsible because of that. The reality is that there's no possible way that everyone at VAG could've possibly known about the software changes.
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Since VW has already admitted the software cheat was intentional I don't thinking proving knowledge and fraud will be very difficult. The company is responsible even if not everyone in the company knew what was going on. No one is going after the local dealers sales staff.

The law takes intentions into account, fraud is treated very differently than unintentional errors. I don't think compensation for lost value is unreasonable in this case. How much value (if any) is lost is going to depend on how VW handles the repairs.
 
Again though, at what point does any automotive manufacture have to guarantee the value of your vehicle after it's sold?
 
Kornholio said:
No, the "American" part is the "give me money because you fucked up" mentality. It's always about money in this country.
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Ah. Well, the 'normal' American would simply want their money back, while the 'modern' American would want their money back, and then some. So, it's not exactly "give me money because you fucked up", it's actually "you sold me a cheater thing and I don't want a cheater thing, so let's undo this transaction", which I'd have nothing negative to say about someone wanting.

Kornholio said:
Firstly, if you're going to make the assertion that they "knew about it", you'd better be prepared to prove that in court. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people outside those directly involved with the production of that software didn't actually know about it at all. You can't say that the people that built or even sold you the car are responsible because of that. The reality is that there's no possible way that everyone at VAG could've possibly known about the software changes.
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What does it matter if everyone knew about it? Is a company absolved of wrongdoing depending on the % of knowledge?

Kornholio said:
Secondly, I can pretty much guarantee that even if VAG were to completely fix the issue and the mileage and performance were still at acceptable levels if not the same, American owners would still hold out their hand and demand money. Sorry, I don't agree with that shit. MPG ratings are not guaranteed and frankly neither are the horsepower and torque numbers of your engine.
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If they could fix the issue as you describe (+/- a reasonable single digit percentage) and people essentially wanted money for nothing, I'd agree, that's shite.
 
1. They need to fix the emission problems with reprogramming.

2. The fuel economy numbers will decrease, so they can issue gas cards like Ford and Hyundai did when they got nailed for cheating on MPG standards.

3. They need to cut another check for resale and just being ass holes.
 
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