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VW "Clean" Diesel not really clean

augustiron said:
Not true from everything I have read on it. They are beating the issue to death here http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448053 and consensus is there is no legal implication of accepting the cards.
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There are multiple lawyers saying to not accept it. The way VW worded it makes it so that if a court of law rules in a specific way they can use it against you.

And trust me if VW can get rid of all the people who accepted it they will.
 
nine_inch_rear said:
VW buys the cars back
Forced into bankruptcy protection
Re-tool and hope public regains trust
Cant recover? Game over VW.
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They own a lot of separate car companies ( Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti,Porsche etc).

Because of bankruptcy law they can technically "split" there sub companies to a shady offshore corporation, file for bankruptcy at VW and then re-merge their sub companies once they aren't in debt.



Gotta love capitalism. Profit > health.
 
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nine_inch_rear said:
VW buys the cars back
Forced into bankruptcy protection
Re-tool and hope public regains trust
Cant recover? Game over VW.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes Lovely. That means all gasoline VW owners now have to get a check for "oh my, the loss of KBB value of the car". Gee, we bought those cars as an investment!!!

(Nevermind that not really, I think most cars are a bad investment. Supposedly everyone should know that. Do TDI owners want to get their cake and eat it too? )
 
AbsolutEnduser said:
:rolleyes Lovely. That means all gasoline VW owners now have to get a check for "oh my, the loss of KBB value of the car". Gee, we bought those cars as an investment!!!

(Nevermind that not really, I think most cars are a bad investment. Supposedly everyone should know that. Do TDI owners want to get their cake and eat it too? )
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People bought the cars for the gas mileage and reduction in emissions. Most people who bought tdi's don't care about the couple thousands loss from purchasing a new car. What pisses people off is the fact you bought a clean environmentally friendly car and you find out it's actually worse.
 
Pierre I am said:
People bought the cars for the gas mileage and reduction in emissions. Most people who bought tdi's don't care about the couple thousands loss from purchasing a new car. What pisses people off is the fact you bought a clean environmentally friendly car and you find out it's actually worse.
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Dunno there. Vehicles are durable goods, with long, long history of trading values. People buy vehicles knowing it'll depreciate in value within a given pattern. If all of sudden, the vehicle becomes worthless and unlawful, solely because of a manufacturer's cheat, owners ought to be entitled to a compensation.
 
Pierre I am said:
People bought the cars for the gas mileage and reduction in emissions. Most people who bought tdi's don't care about the couple thousands loss from purchasing a new car. What pisses people off is the fact you bought a clean environmentally friendly car and you find out it's actually worse.
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I have seen absolutely nobody whine about the dirtiness of the car on this forum, nor outside of it.

Literally everyone I have read on this forum and outside of it (my TDI owners friends) only talks about how awesome the power and the mileage is.

What's more, I haven't seen any driver in the countries I have visited, complain of any dirtiness in any diesel, including diesels by GM/Opel (just drove one) or Citroen or Toyota.

Additionally, the people who have posted above said they care only about the KBB value. Some of them posted last year what I said above, about the power and MPG.

It seems to me that people don't care about 'clean' at all..
 
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^^ Agree. I did not buy the car based on 'clean diesel' claims. I bought it because diesel has more power and great mpg compared to a prius AND the resale value diesels typically have.
 
We have the car because of the MPG/ "clean emissions". So we were pretty mad when we found out what happened.

New cars are the worst investments any one can make. Unless you're buying crazy supercars you're going to take a fat hit the moment you drive off the lot. You should never buy a car just for the resale value in 3 years. At that point you should do a lease.
 
The car right now is basically worthless. I tried trading in as well and no one would take it not even vw
 
Pierre I am said:
New cars are the worst investments any one can make. Unless you're buying crazy supercars you're going to take a fat hit the moment you drive off the lot. You should never buy a car just for the resale value in 3 years. At that point you should do a lease.
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Yes, but you understand that if KBB and NADA showed $0 value for 3-year old cars, it'd be a very different car market. Financing alone can be over 72 months (6 years). No bank would lend money for which the collateral would be valued at $0 before the term of the loan. There's plenty of documented expectations for valued of used cars. It's bizarre you're arguing against that.
 
KWeezyXB12 said:
The car right now is basically worthless. I tried trading in as well and no one would take it not even vw
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Case in point. Sorry, man. That sucks!

IMO, VW should offer to buy the car from you at the KBB/NADA value as of the eve of the scandal made public. They fucked it up, not you. But there's a reason people don't make me king.
 
Marcoose said:
Yes, but you understand that if KBB and NADA showed $0 value for 3-year old cars, it'd be a very different car market. Financing alone can be over 72 months (6 years). No bank would lend money for which the collateral would be valued at $0 before the term of the loan. There's plenty of documented expectations for valued of used cars. It's bizarre you're arguing against that.
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You can't trust KBB since it's going off the valuation that people are putting on their bill of sales. This is why you see used cars with KBB's of 2-3k when in reality they are selling for 15k. People are trying to avoid paying taxes on the used cars.
 
Marcoose said:
Case in point. Sorry, man. That sucks!

IMO, VW should offer to buy the car from you at the KBB/NADA value as of the eve of the scandal made public. They fucked it up, not you. But there's a reason people don't make me king.
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VW should buy the newer cars back at the msrp price. It's looking like they will most likely have to since they aren't able to do a quick recall to fix the issue. Also the CA consumer / lemon laws will pressure them into doing so. Add the pressure of class action lawsuits and it seems like it's their only option.
 
Pierre I am said:
You can't trust KBB since it's going off the valuation that people are putting on their bill of sales. This is why you see used cars with KBB's of 2-3k when in reality they are selling for 15k. People are trying to avoid paying taxes on the used cars.
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Alright. Don't trust KBB. LOL. Go out on the street and poll people. Somewhere, someone has a baseline for the value of vehicles.
 
Pierre I am said:
VW should buy the newer cars back at the msrp price. It's looking like they will most likely have to since they aren't able to do a quick recall to fix the issue. Also the CA consumer / lemon laws will pressure them into doing so. Add the pressure of class action lawsuits and it seems like it's their only option.
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:thumbup
 
Marcoose said:
Alright. Don't trust KBB. LOL. Go out on the street and poll people. Somewhere, someone has a baseline for the value of vehicles.
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It always made me laugh when i was selling a used car and someone would bring up the KBB value.

I mean their system makes no sense. if your car is in horrible value it's only worth 1k less than one in amazing condition?
 
Marcoose said:
:thumbup
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We can hope at this point right? The law is pointing towards a buy back but you never really know with corruption.

I just wouldn't accept their "free gift". Too many clauses in it can be skewed in their favor to basically say that since you accepted it you gave away your rights for a buyback.
 
Pierre I am said:
It always made me laugh when i was selling a used car and someone would bring up the KBB value.

I mean their system makes no sense. if your car is in horrible value it's only worth 1k less than one in amazing condition?
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For me, KBB is an indication of the direction the wind is blowing, so to speak. If I'm in the market for a 2012 Hyundai Sonata, a car I've never either owned or driven, KBB would be able to tell me if I should be prepared to spend $20K, $50K, or $80K. From that point on, it's buy-sell skills.

But looking at how some barfers advertise their own motorbikes on barf, you can find 10-yo tricked-out litre motorbikes for $4K right next to comparable 10-yo stock motorbikes for $6K. Go figure.



Pierre I am said:
We can hope at this point right? The law is pointing towards a buy back but you never really know with corruption.

I just wouldn't accept their "free gift". Too many clauses in it can be skewed in their favor to basically say that since you accepted it you gave away your rights for a buyback.
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Totally! VW can shove their gifts you know where.
 
Pierre I am said:
We have the car because of the MPG/ "clean emissions". So we were pretty mad when we found out what happened.

New cars are the worst investments any one can make. Unless you're buying crazy supercars you're going to take a fat hit the moment you drive off the lot. You should never buy a car just for the resale value in 3 years. At that point you should do a lease.
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The car Jetta TDI is EPA rated at 33 MPG, so we all knew the whole time what a TDI really gets when it is so called "clean". (If you call extracting, refining, and burning petroleum clean.) Everyone just ignored why drivers would get much better fuel economy than its EPA rating and wrote off the EPA tests as 'too hard on diesel'.
 
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