Who's gone Solar

[kiwi_outdoors]

selling the house - don't do solar

My wife runs a daycare in our house and the TV, lights, HVAC is running all day during the week. Our electric bill is often times $300 or more every month so solar would make sense for us but we’re thinking of selling the house in 2-3 years and moving somewhere cheaper so we can retire.
Kinda wondering if going solar would make sense for us at this point.
I think the monthly utility savings would be equal to the solar equipment payment.

don't do solar if you are selling in the near term - you don't get your Return on Investment (ROI)

 

[Starpower]

Are you assuming the EV is sitting at the house during the sun shine parts of day? What about the case where a person drives the EV to work and back. Leaves like 7:30am, gets home like 6pm, then this doesn't work??

I'm not suggesting that you go completely off grid, but the EV be for power failure back up. However, I did imply that you could go off grid with the EV if desired as it would be the cheapest way to buy a large battery pack. On the rare days your EV is tied up serving back up, use Uber/Lyft if not a spare car.

The vast majority of CA realtor's (as does the Nat. Realtors Assoc.) will tell you a solar home is worth more than an identical home without it. Also most banks will consider the solar home having lower monthly expenses when considering your cash flow for a loan.

When I was still solar contracting I refused to install solar on any roof over 15 y/o. The roofing under a solar array has an "umbrella" over it for protection and will out last many homes.

Electricity production from basically a rock with no moving parts is so damn elegant. I pay nothing for fill-ups for my Zero and Kuberg dirt bikes! Also very elegant with 4 major moving parts half of them are the wheels!

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Trying to download reporting from PG&E to determine how much i overbuilt my systems. My 2 neighbors have panels but much smaller than mine overall, and just flush mounted while I have like 18 panels on both sides of the roof angled for superior performance. It seemed a good idea to get the biggest possible system for my roof space but i probably could have saved a few thousand and reduced the size, but I tell myself electricity will only get more expensive.

Thanks PG&E: 504 Gateway Time-out

They haven't updated the Satellite showing the 2nd neighbor's setup but you can see mine top right and theirs is bottom left:

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

I've generated 24.1MWh in a little less than 2 years. Pretty happy about that.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

14.19 MWh Since 06/30/2021

 

[mercurial]

Frankly - its dumb to mix up roof and PV. Keep the PV out in the desert, and leave our roofs to be just that.

If you have a "Back-40" - put the PV system over there, separate from your roof. Or make the PV system your carport or shade structure.

Disagree 100%, solar panels act as a second roof and significantly decrease structure heat saturation during the summer months. You will run your AC system significantly less with the panels soaking up and reflecting most of the sun's rays during the hottest summer months. Your roof should also last significantly longer since it's no longer directly exposed to the sun. In my experience, the reduction in cooling costs was nearly as good as the power offset.

Of course it's a hassle to put a new solar system on a beat ass old roof and then have to replace the roof only a few years later - why did you do that?

 

[HappyHighwayman]

What's your opinion on venting a roof covered by solar panels? I had some vents put in before I knew I'd be getting solar. Stays pretty cool in the attic now.

I don't have central AC...during those 10 days a year I need it in the city I always debate adding one or just getting a window unit

 

[insyder]

...Issue is my previous 12 month power usage wont be anywhere near accurate for what my future usage will be.

Average your usage over multiple years. Gives you a better average usage to work with to estimate size for your solar system.

...We are very frugal in the summer when its over 100 for 3 months straight with thermostat at 78 usually only turned on to get temp down to sleep. We use the pool to cool down mostly. But the bill is around $7-$800 just for those months.

Electricity is billed for the year through net energy metering(NEM). If you elect to goes balls deep on A/C in the summer, it could balance out that monthly average during the winter. Better for your wallet to NOT go crazy on A/C either way.

Additionally, would probably change the propane range, dryer, and maybe both water heaters to electric if we went Solar.

I'm going the opposite way. Making anything that produces heat to be gas-based.
Electricity is a high quality, low entropy form of energy. As such it is very versatile. Save electricity for tasks other lower quality forms of energy like fossil fuels cannot do - like powering the screen your reading this from.

Heating with electrical resistance is like cutting butter with a chain saw. Besides, as a heating source, nat. gas is usually cheaper than electric resistance heating.

...I'm not sure how to calculate all that in.

It's important to understand your energy usage and properly size your system. The general consensus here is correct, you're going to get pennies on the dollar for "overage" you get on your NEM/true-up, so don't waste a bunch of money building the biggest you can. Batteries change the equation, but you must also measure the initial cost and ROI vs your usage.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

 

[insyder]

Well done. Good sizing.

Our temps are a bit warmer here in the valley. Makes those summer numbers a little more challenging.

 

[mikev]

anybody able to speak to replacing panels with higher output / higher efficiency models?

 

[tgrrdr]

anybody able to speak to replacing panels with higher output / higher efficiency models?

I'm not an expert but one thing I've learned from research for my system is that your inverter may limit the energy coming from your panels that you can use (clipping).

I tried to determine what capacity solar panels had 20 years ago and was unsuccessful. I found one article from 2015 that talked about 250-watt panels. So for discussion I'm going to assume panels 20 years ago were 200-watts. I just had some installed on my house that are 395 and ones rated over 400 seem to be common. So, if you replace your old panels with the same number of new ones (and the rest of your system can handle it) you may produce significantly more power.

I'm not sure what kind of shape your roof is in after 20 years but that's another consideration - it may be time to replace it instead of swapping solar panels and then having to remove/replace them in a few years when the roof needs to be replaced.

 

[tgrrdr]

All i know is that solar panels turn sunlight into usable energy for the home.

I had solar installed in mid-October and finally got permission to operate from PG&E on December 2nd (basically that's when my NEM starts). I have 24 x 395-watt panels, so 9.48 kW system. I got my December bill yesterday and I'm not sure how to interpret it - I think my total electric bill for the month was -$30 (credit of $30) and I have a NEM credit of $10.74 that I think will offset my January bill.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

I'm not sure when they calculate the true-up but I think i break even and pay the minimum delivery charges.

 

[tgrrdr]

Issue is my previous 12 month power usage wont be anywhere near accurate for what my future usage will be.

Additionally, would probably change the propane range, dryer, and maybe both water heaters to electric if we went Solar.

I hardly ever use my AC in the summer because it drives my bill through the roof. In the summer of 2020, when we were home most of the time due to COVID I used almost twice as much electricity as I did last summer. August 2020 was my peak month and I used 1154 kWh of electricity, compared to September 2022 I used 654 kWh.

My system was installed and turned on in mid-October and in two weeks it produced 600 kWh, 900 in November and almost 550 in December. I'm hoping that in the summer months it produces enough to offset whatever energy I use for AC. If the design assumptions were correct, my system should allow me to use 1100 kWh per month, on average over the year. I probably could have installed another three or four panels and wish I had asked for that when they were designing my system.

One thing I found out when I was researching is that "normal" electric water heaters use a lot of power. There are heat-pump water heaters but I couldn't figure out how much energy they use - I don't think the cost will compare favorably to the cost of gas that I use now. I'm considering replacing my existing 20-year-old AC unit with a heat pump and expect that to be more efficient for both AC in the summer and heat in the winter.

 

[Eldritch]

Disagree 100%, solar panels act as a second roof and significantly decrease structure heat saturation during the summer months. You will run your AC system significantly less with the panels soaking up and reflecting most of the sun's rays during the hottest summer months. Your roof should also last significantly longer since it's no longer directly exposed to the sun. In my experience, the reduction in cooling costs was nearly as good as the power offset.

Of course it's a hassle to put a new solar system on a beat ass old roof and then have to replace the roof only a few years later - why did you do that?

So, this is largely not true. The added weight and additional roof penetrations tend to make your roof wear differently in a typical asphalt shingle application, but it usually does not extend the EUL (estimated useful life). The sweet spot for added value is when you can find an opportunity to install on a roof that is outside of it's warranty period, but you can get an extended warranty on the roof by the solar company.

anybody able to speak to replacing panels with higher output / higher efficiency models?

Talk to Sunrun about it. They are experts and can do a good deal on this for you.

https://www.sunrun.com/

My experience with them is more with large multifamily installations, but they built their business on single home installs and are one of the national leaders.

 

[mean dad]

Anyone have recommendations on what company to use?

I'm a prime candidate to get hustled by a fast talking salesman so I'd like some personal opinions on who gets my money.

 

[byke]

I came across an article recently where they were building structures in Africa with an additional raised roof because it helped a lot with cooling. I don't think the roof was black though, plus it was more than a few inches above the other rood.

 

[Bay Arean]

This entire thread is intimidating to me because once again, a person has to ascend a fairly steep learning curve to not get sort of screwed by making a poor choice, that they find out about later. As much as it makes me feel like an infantilized Proto-Socialist, I wish there was some kind of regulatory format for prescribing what a person/building really needs, given their structure and location.

And this is why I have yet to pull the trigger. There are too many individuals and institutions trying to grift from the process, with PGE at the top. I dont know if its different in other service areas.

I had a hard-sell guy come make a pitch and I couldn’t have him leave fast enough because he was some kind of sharpie that thought it would be an easy sale without doing the work to explain options. So often, they only want to talk about what they do, and screw you for wanting a complete picture. Plus, everything has been evolving over the last two decades or so of the product. I never even got beyond lease vs. own for that matter. Nobody agreed on what was better.

As it stands, I have an expiring roof, approaching its 30 years. I have a simple floor plan house, exposed in northwest to southeast orientation up at the end of the Berkeley hills.. One too big tree next door but it will come down sooner or later. It’s so windy here, that, frankly. I think I’d be better off with wind power except its so noisy for residential use.

I think I want a battery because, given our state of neo-feudalism, we lack the social contract to guarantee services in the future thanks to collusions between the state and utility provider.. At this rate, we’ll need moats, too.

But, since Ms.. BA and I are both geezers, I cant say we are staying in this house all that much longer. Thus we sit and stew, not making a decision about solar.

Basically, I don’t trust anybody and even with friends who have installed, and a cousin who is a leading expert in solar energy, I still find their experiences and opinions to be all over the map. Man, I hate the feeling of not being able to get a handle on all of it.

 

[ThinkFast]

Anyone have recommendations on what company to use?

I'm a prime candidate to get hustled by a fast talking salesman so I'd like some personal opinions on who gets my money.

I like SunPower. I got proposals/quotes from SunRun and some independent dealer/installers that use SunPower. I also got a quote from SunPower corporate (they're a NYSE listed company). Surprisingly, they came in slightly lower than the indie supplies of their products. And the corporate installers are actually employees of SunRun. Couldn't believe that. Very happy with result. And fortunately had it done about a year after installing a new roof - they thought that was a very good move.

Also, if your roof is end of life and you want to upgrade or install new solar, I've seen some homes in our area getting a solar shingle roof installed. Might want to check that out. I suspect it's pretty expensive - have no idea, though. By the time you're in for $20k on a roof and another $20k on solar, maybe the solar shinge roof becomes cost effective.