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Who's gone Solar

Roof was inspected and the front half re-shingled about 4 years ago (just before I bought the house). If I can get by with the panels on the back half of the house instead (much better curb appeal) then I'll make sure it's ready to go.

Solar shingles sound sexy as fuck though, not gonna lie.
 
It absolutely helps with cooling, it deflects solar radiation so it's kinda like putting a canopy of trees above your roof.

To eldritch's point on longevity, I have a concrete tile roof so my install is a bit different. I guess the solar array rack mounts would create weak points, but it seems to me that this could be largely addressed with careful attention to metal flashing around each mount point. If the solar installers are just drilling through the asphault shingles and blobbing caulking everywhere to seal it up, that's not going to be super great for longevity...
 
Be careful with your TrueUp. It wasn't explained to us when we signed up for solar (forcefully by the builder) and we got hit with an $800 charge at the end of 2021 and nearly $1000 at the end of 2022.

Yes, I know our system is a bit undersized, because again, it wasn't explained to us very well.

I can reduce the TrueUp by, oh, having the sun shine longer, use barely any electricity during peak hours and/or add a few more panels and add a battery back up.
 
Couple more thoughts on solar:
1. Here's a good explainer on solar shingles and the pros and cons vs regular solar panels. https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/what-are-solar-shingles/

2. One thing to keep in mind about solar arrays is the estimated fall off in production efficiency. All PV products decline over time in terms of the amount of power the panel produces. So when you're comparing quotes, be sure you get that info as part of the quote. Ours has a warranty for the maximum allowable percent decline in the first year, and then the max allowable percent decline per year for the next 10-20 years.

This is especially important if you're sourcing DIY panels, because it's very much a 'you get what you pay for' deal.
 
Bay Arean said:
This entire thread is intimidating to me because once again, a person has to ascend a fairly steep learning curve to not get sort of screwed by making a poor choice, that they find out about later. As much as it makes me feel like an infantilized Proto-Socialist, I wish there was some kind of regulatory format for prescribing what a person/building really needs, given their structure and location.

And this is why I have yet to pull the trigger. There are too many individuals and institutions trying to grift from the process, with PGE at the top. I dont know if its different in other service areas.

I had a hard-sell guy come make a pitch and I couldn’t have him leave fast enough because he was some kind of sharpie that thought it would be an easy sale without doing the work to explain options. So often, they only want to talk about what they do, and screw you for wanting a complete picture. Plus, everything has been evolving over the last two decades or so of the product. I never even got beyond lease vs. own for that matter. Nobody agreed on what was better.

As it stands, I have an expiring roof, approaching its 30 years. I have a simple floor plan house, exposed in northwest to southeast orientation up at the end of the Berkeley hills.. One too big tree next door but it will come down sooner or later. It’s so windy here, that, frankly. I think I’d be better off with wind power except its so noisy for residential use.

I think I want a battery because, given our state of neo-feudalism, we lack the social contract to guarantee services in the future thanks to collusions between the state and utility provider.. At this rate, we’ll need moats, too.

But, since Ms.. BA and I are both geezers, I cant say we are staying in this house all that much longer. Thus we sit and stew, not making a decision about solar.

Basically, I don’t trust anybody and even with friends who have installed, and a cousin who is a leading expert in solar energy, I still find their experiences and opinions to be all over the map. Man, I hate the feeling of not being able to get a handle on all of it.
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You are absolutely right to be untrusting of it. There is not a slimier industry of deep margins and hard sells. Just make sure that whenever you get close, bring the itemized quote back here before pulling the trigger on anything. None of it is magic. There are only a handful of core components(google "solar home diagram" and look through a punch of pics), know them and what they do and you'll be a step ahead. Make sure you buy LifePo4 batteries is you're looking for something that will last a long time. You'll probably want to buy them on your own, because they'll gouge you on them for being "twice the cost", but they'll forget to mention that it's at twice the capacity because they're not 1:1 with lead-acid/gel, so it's actually closer to the same cost.
 
Yeah I think my bonus this year is gonna go into solar + battery along with any upgrades needed (roof, electrical panel, etc).

Too bad I missed the window to be grandfathered into the existing rates. Frankly ROI is secondary to being insulated from blackouts.
 
HappyHighwayman said:
Plus they raised the Federal subsidy to 30% when I did it it was 26%
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I got 26%, too, installing back in July. I read somewhere that I'll be able to file for the additional 4% tax credit on this year's return - they're going to grandfather in installations in 2022.
 
mean dad said:
Yeah I think my bonus this year is gonna go into solar + battery along with any upgrades needed (roof, electrical panel, etc).

Too bad I missed the window to be grandfathered into the existing rates. Frankly ROI is secondary to being insulated from blackouts.
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You are not too late to be grandfathered into the more advantageous NEM2 program if you can find an installer to complete the required paperwork. I am tempted to just spend the money to install solar on all my rental units.

https://www.solar.com/learn/how-to-grandfather-your-solar-system-into-nem-2-0/
 
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mikev said:
anybody able to speak to replacing panels with higher output / higher efficiency models?
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I would recommend against the replacement. If you need more power simply add more to the existing. If you cannot get a match or your inverter is maxed out, add micro inverters or a another string inverter. These modules have an extremely slow degradation. The min. warranty looks to be still producing 80% at 20 years and are not prorated by most. I have modules that are a bit over 40 y/o that are producing 90% of nameplate still. Over my 45 years on solar I've expanded my system multiple times and now have 5 independent solar arrays and controls on one battery bank. "If it ain't broke don't fit it"!

I also have the prefect marriage - solar/hydro hybrid. For the last 2 weeks my home is powered by the small creek on my property with the lack of sun.
When it rains I get hydro, if clear I get solar, as I write this both are cranking out!
 
byke said:
You are absolutely right to be untrusting of it. There is not a slimier industry of deep margins and hard sells. Just make sure that whenever you get close, bring the itemized quote back here before pulling the trigger on anything. None of it is magic. There are only a handful of core components(google "solar home diagram" and look through a punch of pics), know them and what they do and you'll be a step ahead. Make sure you buy LifePo4 batteries is you're looking for something that will last a long time. You'll probably want to buy them on your own, because they'll gouge you on them for being "twice the cost", but they'll forget to mention that it's at twice the capacity because they're not 1:1 with lead-acid/gel, so it's actually closer to the same cost.
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Thanks. This is what I mean, I have to become kind of a temporary expert to make even a moderately intelligent decision or I’m screwed. Sorry to whine, but shit. Yay, capitalism. Srsly, when it comes to all things involving public utilities, the profit motive stands between committed, strategic, reliable service and the consumer. Plenty of innovation, to be sure but I remember thinking early on, the the first units people were buying would be quickly eclipsed by better products and it has happened.

In my fantasy of residential solar power, the shingles are the solution, with a lot of redundancy but basic universal function that always gives you something, no matter what. I’m sure once I get my PhD, I’ll figure it out…haw.
 
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Do you have a shed in the backyard? That'd be a great exercise which could also provide some usefulness. Put a couple panels on a shed, wire into a simple controller/inverter combo unit, hookup a couple old car batteries and use it to power some small things during an outage. Small setups are great because they don't nickel and dime you with a bunch of fuses and disconnects and whatnot. Low power stuff you can wire direct. It's the best way to learn fast with easy and fairly instant gratification, imo. Watch this to see how simple you can start. It's like six wires and the effort is just in mounting things and spending some time learning settings. It blows up pretty fast from there of course, but the most important thing is to grasp the 30k foot view of what's happening with energy collected and energy used, then you should be able to speak the language and that should help you keep from getting taken advantage of.

I'll just warn you in advance that when people aren't super familiar, ten times out of ten, the battery usefulness/cost ratio ends up being disappointing. Take a typical 12v 100ah car-sized deep cycle lead-acid/gel battery for example. You can only discharge them to 50%, which means you can use 50ah at 12v, which 50ah x 12v is 600 watt hours. That means you can power a 100 watt light bulb for six hours. So you spend however much for what looks like a large battery and all you can do with it at night is power a 100 watt bulb for just six hours. Laaaaaaaaame. The battery game forces you to a crossroads instantly. You either spend a lot, or you find ways to use less, or some combination thereof. For example, you may have laughed at the idea of a 100 watt bulb, because we don't really have those anymore. Instead, we can use a 10 watt led bulb and now all of a sudden that battery provides light for ten times longer. Attrition is by far the biggest money saver in solar. Do an energy audit of your current devices if you're ready for battery co$t tear$, because that'll get your creative juices going for reducing needs.
 
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Thanks again for really practical considerations. I had to laugh at the shed part considering how Bill Maher did a shed and made a huge gag of how long it took the authorities to let him fire it up.

I would of course use the side yard nobody can see should I attempt this!!!!

One of the few good things goin my way is that I had my electrical panel replaced in 2020 and its supposedly solar ready for hookup. That might save a few bux.
 
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The net metering agreement is good for 20yr (per the solar salesfolk I talked to last week), so keep that in mind (assuming I understood correctly).
 
insyder said:
Average your usage over multiple years. Gives you a better average usage to work with to estimate size for your solar system.
Electricity is billed for the year through net energy metering(NEM). If you elect to goes balls deep on A/C in the summer, it could balance out that monthly average during the winter. Better for your wallet to NOT go crazy on A/C either way.
I'm going the opposite way. Making anything that produces heat to be gas-based.
Electricity is a high quality, low entropy form of energy. As such it is very versatile. Save electricity for tasks other lower quality forms of energy like fossil fuels cannot do - like powering the screen your reading this from.

Heating with electrical resistance is like cutting butter with a chain saw. Besides, as a heating source, nat. gas is usually cheaper than electric resistance heating.
It's important to understand your energy usage and properly size your system. The general consensus here is correct, you're going to get pennies on the dollar for "overage" you get on your NEM/true-up, so don't waste a bunch of money building the biggest you can. Batteries change the equation, but you must also measure the initial cost and ROI vs your usage.
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I may not have been paying attention but did I hear PG&E is going to assess ~$60 3rd party NG supplier fees? Anyway, the alphabet news jockeys seemed to indicate the average PG&E bill was going to go from two something to three something...
 
Here are three quotes that we've got so far...probably pull the trigger in about a month or so when we file taxes.

Would appreciate any thoughts, comments, or suggestions : )

Solar 01.jpg

Solar 02.jpg

The image that has "Standard x15" panels - I asked them which panels they are, and the guys said "REC - Canadian 370W".

Solar 03.jpg
 
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