Who's gone Solar

[Bowling4Bikes]

I was told the installation fees are similar if you get 1 or 30 panels installed. That prompted me to install more than I thought I'd need. Glad I did though. It's given me flexibility to install a heat pump in the future which can eliminate a big use of gas in my house (plus get a/c).

Efficiency is getting better all the time. My LG 380's at 21.0% efficiency are pretty good but the top tier ones look to be in the 400W, 22% efficiency range. Thinking that I'm going to have these for a long while, I got the highest wattage and efficiency my guy could/would get me.

 

[TwistedGRAY]

It's given me flexibility to install a heat pump in the future which can eliminate a big use of gas in my house (plus get a/c).

The majority of our PG&E goes towards the gas portion (wall heater, gas stove/oven, water heater). The biggest component being the wall heater.

Do you have a good resource for how heat pumps work, etc? I'd like to get off gas, too.

 

[byke]

Here are three quotes that we've got so far...probably pull the trigger in about a month or so when we file taxes.

Would appreciate any thoughts, comments, or suggestions : )

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The image that has "Standard x15" panels - I asked them which panels they are, and the guys said "REC - Canadian 370W".

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Not sure about "REC - Canadian 370w". Sounds like they want to sell Canadian Solar panels at REC pricing. Either way, the Enphase microinverters are like $200 a piece and a Canadian Solar 370w panel might be $250ea, add another $100'ish if it's actually REC. These deals are usually pretty similar with most places trying to make sure they see at least $10k for their installation labor. That's too much for such a simple installation with not a ton of solar benefit to you(no power when pge is down, no storage). What is the goal with solar? Or, what is the issue that needs fixing?

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

The majority of our PG&E goes towards the gas portion (wall heater, gas stove/oven, water heater). The biggest component being the wall heater.

Do you have a good resource for how heat pumps work, etc? I'd like to get off gas, too.

not yet unfortunately. I'm still youtubing etc. got a quote for an air-to-air for ~20k. was hoping for a better price but we'll see.

 

[250mL]

Here are three quotes that we've got so far...probably pull the trigger in about a month or so when we file taxes.

Would appreciate any thoughts, comments, or suggestions : )

View attachment 554980

View attachment 554981

The image that has "Standard x15" panels - I asked them which panels they are, and the guys said "REC - Canadian 370W".

View attachment 554982

YES, thoughts!!!

You cannot afford to wait until after April tax returns to secure a contract. Please see my earlier link about obtaining the necessary paperwork to make sure you can secure NEM2 payback, otherwise those payback estimates in your quote will be 3-4 times longer under the NEM3 payback schedule.

Here it is: https://www.solar.com/learn/how-to-grandfather-your-solar-system-into-nem-2-0/

 

[TwistedGRAY]

What is the goal with solar? Or, what is the issue that needs fixing?

(noted on everything else)

I work from home (have since 2016), and therefore I use electricity sun up to sun down. Second, we have a koi pond that sucks energy all day every day. If we can eliminate the E portion of the PG&E bill and dip into the G portion in the winter by electrically heated the house when solar is available, it'll pay itself off soon enough.

Sometime down the road I will also be looking at picking up an EV that can act as a battery bank and power the house at night (if financially practical) to. I really want a battery to use at night, but they're awfully expensive (more than the solar). For half of the year our gas portion is $200 per month, and I'd like to chip away at that (and we already keep the house at 60-65F during those months - would be nice to be more comfortable).

 

[TwistedGRAY]

YES, thoughts!!!

You cannot afford to wait until after April tax returns to secure a contract. Please see my earlier link about obtaining the necessary paperwork to make sure you can secure NEM2 payback, otherwise those payback estimates in your quote will be 3-4 times longer under the NEM3 payback schedule.

Here it is: https://www.solar.com/learn/how-to-grandfather-your-solar-system-into-nem-2-0/

Yeah, we won't be waiting until April. I usually have my taxes done mid/late February

 

[Starpower]

not yet unfortunately. I'm still youtubing etc. got a quote for an air-to-air for ~20k. was hoping for a better price but we'll see.

Be sure you crunch the numbers! With solar so cheap these days it is often far more economical to go with a less expensive appliance that is less efficient and add more solar panels to make up for it. This especially applies to heat pump water heaters as well as solar thermal water heating. It costs very little in solar panels to power a conventual elec. water heater that has no moving parts.

As an example, a few years ago I was adding a small mini split. Highest efficiency was $1600 and would take $600 in solar panels to power it for a total of $2200. A lower efficiency one cost me $700 and required $1000 in solar to power it for a $500 savings. As a bonus when not using the mini split I generate more power than the $600 in solar panels would. A win-win!

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Why does California want to discourage people form getting solar? NEM 3.0 reduces your credits by 75%! I'd never have gotten it under 3.0

 

[TwistedGRAY]

Tesla's online quote

 

[byke]

(noted on everything else)

I work from home (have since 2016), and therefore I use electricity sun up to sun down. Second, we have a koi pond that sucks energy all day every day. If we can eliminate the E portion of the PG&E bill and dip into the G portion in the winter by electrically heated the house when solar is available, it'll pay itself off soon enough.

Sometime down the road I will also be looking at picking up an EV that can act as a battery bank and power the house at night (if financially practical) to. I really want a battery to use at night, but they're awfully expensive (more than the solar). For half of the year our gas portion is $200 per month, and I'd like to chip away at that (and we already keep the house at 60-65F during those months - would be nice to be more comfortable).

That's awesome. Daytime users are best case use for solar. Have a look at the Signature Solar site. You can get a plug & play 30kwh UL listed battery rack for $9k. Maybe see if your installer can ido a "battery ready" install and then you handle the rest.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Tesla has a terrible customer service reputation

 

[TwistedGRAY]

Tesla has a terrible customer service reputation

I've owned their cars in the past; I know. But that aside...

 

[TwistedGRAY]

That's awesome. Daytime users are best case use for solar. Have a look at the Signature Solar site. You can get a plug & play 30kwh UL listed battery rack for $9k. Maybe see if your installer can ido a "battery ready" install and then you handle the rest.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say you're talking to someone who doesn't know diddly squat

If I understand you correctly, have the solar installed "normally", buy the battery bank separately ($9k), and then have someone (perhaps the installer) connect the battery to the panel setup?

Alternatively, do the same noted above but save up for the battery and drop that in later, but everything will already be wired up, etc?

 

[TwistedGRAY]

I mean, from the sounds of it, buying a system like this (https://signaturesolar.com/complete-all-in-one-off-grid-solar-kit-kit-e0000) and finding someone to install it would actually be cheaper than hiring a company to just do the solar install in the long run. AND it would provide backup battery power from the start.

Surely there are some things that you'd lose out on if you did it this way?

I'm probably misunderstanding something, or maybe it's near impossible to find someone to install a system (without them managing the hardware aspect, ie: their margin)?

 

[byke]

Hypothetically speaking, let's say you're talking to someone who doesn't know diddly squat

If I understand you correctly, have the solar installed "normally", buy the battery bank separately ($9k), and then have someone (perhaps the installer) connect the battery to the panel setup?

Alternatively, do the same noted above but save up for the battery and drop that in later, but everything will already be wired up, etc?

I don't know much about proper residential installs, but what most people actually want is a hybrid system, with the ability to operate on grid as well as off grid. All the common installs like the quotes you've posted are all grid tie, so they have no way of connecting a battery without swapping all the inverters for a hybrid unit. What would be cool is if it's not that much more to have the hybrid inverter installed from the start, then you could add the battery later on very easily. You could buy it on your own and then it would cost very little to have someone install it and setup the inverter for it.

 

[TwistedGRAY]

I don't know much about proper residential installs, but what most people actually want is a hybrid system, with the ability to operate on grid as well as off grid. All the common installs like the quotes you've posted are all grid tie, so they have no way of connecting a battery without swapping all the inverters for a hybrid unit.

Ah, I see!! Thank you for recognizing this as I had not.

What would be cool is if it's not that much more to have the hybrid inverter installed from the start, then you could add the battery later on very easily. You could buy it on your own and then it would cost very little to have someone install it and setup the inverter for it.

That was the plan, in the back of my head all along, and I probably failed to articulate that to the companies bidding for the project.

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

What would be cool is if it's not that much more to have the hybrid inverter installed from the start, then you could add the battery later on very easily. You could buy it on your own and then it would cost very little to have someone install it and setup the inverter for it.

that's my plan. I have hybrid service and no battery. the battery would have been for emergency backup, in which I have never lost power to my house in over 20 years. Not a big need for me, but I do want the ability to have a battery and of course this whole thing about PGE could start charging us daily for use and production (i.e. pay us pennies/kWh when we make it, while charging us full cost to get it back from them).

Also, I have an older Nissan Leaf in which when I would upgrade the battery, I'd like to re-use the old battery cells as the backup battery system for the house. It's doable but kind of fringe right now. Hopefully in a few years there will be more technicians out there who can do this service more easily.

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

Be sure you crunch the numbers! With solar so cheap these days it is often far more economical to go with a less expensive appliance that is less efficient and add more solar panels to make up for it. This especially applies to heat pump water heaters as well as solar thermal water heating. It costs very little in solar panels to power a conventual elec. water heater that has no moving parts.

As an example, a few years ago I was adding a small mini split. Highest efficiency was $1600 and would take $600 in solar panels to power it for a total of $2200. A lower efficiency one cost me $700 and required $1000 in solar to power it for a $500 savings. As a bonus when not using the mini split I generate more power than the $600 in solar panels would. A win-win!

interesting thought. I'll take it under consideration. thanks.

 

[250mL]

Tesla's online quote

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Can you summarize your various quotes and give pricing on a per kW basis?

My brother is adding a second system to his house with intent to get under NEM2. He has quoted Tesla installation with significant savings over others…a big reason is the use of string inverters versus micro inverters. He is taking the gamble with the string inverters since he has no shading concerns, coupled with Tesla’s minimum production guarantee (meaning any potential system outage may still be paid as if somewhat functional).