Anti-Asian Hate Crimes

[GAJ]

If you don't view American citizenship as a serious responsibility, you might think that. But if you strip it back to the beginning the country and the radical proposals of the founding fathers, that's pretty much exactly what was required. You don't have to agree with it, but it's worth considering.

Current ideologues think of the founders as greedy, exploitive white men trying to hang onto power at the expense of others and somehow conservative to our way of thinking. But, even if they had some level of self-delusion, they were proposing nothing less than complete rebellion from the existing monarchial social order, which, by nature, meant they were NOT the power elite, even if they formed a new one. Further, even though slave-holding is the sin they are held to by most, they set up a country that would eventually lead to universal suffrage and the right for ANY adult in the society to own weapons for self-protection and voluntary militia service.

You are supposed to take responsibility for your life, your home and your society. You are supposed to understand your legal rights and have serious concerns for your elected officials and the limits of their powers. It's grown-up stuff. Grown-ups can handle guns as tools, perpetual kidults likely cannot.

Most people aren't, and probably never were, up to it.

But I'd rather have Eldritch as a countryman any day because he gets it. He represents no harm, ever, to me, whereas people who want experts and higher authorities to take responsibility in society for them, are harmful.

So my not owning a gun, (BTW I have always enjoyed guns), means I am not a good citizen.

That makes absolutely no freaking sense in 2021 unlike 1821 or earlier.

 

[Bay Arean]

So my not owning a gun, (BTW I have always enjoyed guns), means I am not a good citizen.

That makes absolutely no freaking sense in 2021 unlike 1821 or earlier.

Yeah, it's not without contradiction and doesn't provide gray area. I don't own weapons either but I understand the thinking behind his contention. So I contradict it myself and would not be a good citizen in his book either. I was changing/editing argument after posting because of it....

You say it makes no sense, but you DO realize that when social disorder looms, the police cannot protect everyone, right? They can't even do it right now. Most of us live in a thin margin of social trust that can easily be disrupted. We are delusional most of the time regarding safety.

I'd rather live in a society where people had the right than not and this current situation with my Asian-American countrymen is an example. We happen to be gutting police departments in our latest social experiment in places that just happen to have a rise in this type of crime. I am not saying it's causal, but it sure ain't helping.

Also about 1821. More like 1891 if you are going to go there. California was the beginning of the Wild West during the Gold Rush. People were always armed in those days for self-protection and this lasted for a few more decades until enough urban police forces and social order took hold.

I feel that its a luxury, and a hard-earned one, to NOT have to own weapons for self-protection. But it often feels like its time to arm up, but a person has to consider their imagination, fear-based thinking capacity, in that calculation.

 

[Climber]

So what do people think would be the end result of Asians carrying guns and shooting people trying to assault them?

Bear in mind that the law of unintended consequences will be in play.

 

[gnahc79]

Getting a firearm as a reaction out of fear doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Eldritch]

I'm sorry but that is some batshit crazy thinking right there.

It simply is not. For most of the history of our nation, this was simply a given. Our constitution is clear. It is the responsibility of all Citizens to take ownership of our society. People who think that is crazy tend to be the same sad and confused souls who think it is the job of Police to protect them.

I used that moment to tell him that I'd had guns in my apartment since the day that I moved it. He seemed surprised but also pleased to learn this.

I love them like family. Maybe I should have them meet me at the range the next time I am in the city for a week or so. Their boys are the same age mine was when he learned to shoot and I have tons and tons of .22 ammo.

I think it is a great idea. I have given a fair number of people basic range safety instruction over the years, mostly women who were concerned about their personal safety for some reason.

Typically once they use the tool and feel the noise, they lose interest in taking on the responsibility.

 

[NSR500]

So what do people think would be the end result of Asians carrying guns and shooting people trying to assault them?

Bear in mind that the law of unintended consequences will be in play.

There’s already an example of this historically; Rooftop Koreans.

 

[GAJ]

Yeah, it's not without contradiction and doesn't provide gray area. I don't own weapons either but I understand the thinking behind his contention. So I contradict it myself and would not be a good citizen in his book either.

You say it makes no sense, but you DO realize that when social disorder looms, the police cannot protect everyone, right? They can't even do it right now. Most of us live in a thin margin of social trust that can easily be disrupted. We are delusional most of the time regarding safety.

I'd rather live in a society where people had the right than not and this current situation with my Asian-American countrymen is an example.

I'm well aware that my friend in Miami post Hurricane Andrew said having a gun made a lot of sense at that particular time as looting was rampant.

Never had to use it of course, or even brandish it.

I have a plan in place should we have a similar event here that is earthquake related to ride my moto up to my friend's and borrow one of his guns should I feel unsafe.

But until that time I don't feel that it makes any sense at all to have a gun in my home here in suburban Santa Rosa.

My friend lives in the urban/rural interface where it makes sense to have a firearm in my view.

 

[Blankpage]

Every American should own firearms and have some basic training in how to use them. Really, this should be part of our Public Education system. It is a civic responsibility as described in the U.S. Constitution. People who do not keep and bear arms in preparation to serve in the militia are the same as people who do not vote.

That being said, people carrying firearms out of fear with minimal training is a recipe for social disaster. Citizens who wish to do their civic duty require not only technical training on the handling and operation of their weapon, but more importantly psychological training in how to interact with your community as an owner of its defense, which requires a greater degree of calm and awareness than your typical less responsible citizen.

Personally, I encourage citizens with such a desire to pursue it in the interest of building a better society, but never without commenting on the responsibility it entails.

Everyone armed, citizen and criminal, isn’t that the same as a math equation with the same variable on each side of the = cancelling each other.

Plenty of corners of the civilized world where different races live together without assaulting each other and are not armed.

Maybe the solution is something else.

 

[Eldritch]

So my not owning a gun, (BTW I have always enjoyed guns), means I am not a good citizen.

That makes absolutely no freaking sense in 2021 unlike 1821 or earlier.

It makes just as much sense now as it did then. All laws are violence. Those who possess the violence are the ones who possess the law. This is why our society was designed in the way it was. To ensure that Americans own their own society. Any society where the citizens are not able to overwhelmingly outgun the agents of the State (police) are subjects of the Police State, not free citizens. The role of the citizen soldier is the born birthright of every American. It is clearly documented in our laws and confirmed by the SCOTUS, I am not sure why this is confusing to you.

So what do people think would be the end result of Asians carrying guns and shooting people trying to assault them?

Bear in mind that the law of unintended consequences will be in play.

I am very glad the charges against Aaron Yee were dropped.

https://www.ktvu.com/news/no-charge...wner-who-fired-gun-to-stop-robbery-in-oakland

Everyone armed, citizen and criminal, isn’t that the same as a math equation with the same variable on each side of the = cancelling each other.

Plenty of corners of the civilized world where different races live together without assaulting each other and are not armed.

Maybe the solution is something else.

This has nothing to do with Race relations, the arming of citizens is about the definition of a free society. If your community must submit to the will of the Police under threat of Force, it is not a free society. If the Police are allowed to operate in their enforcement of the law by the community, who possesses greater force if it is required, this is the free society.

 

[Melissa]

what about those of us who can't legally own a gun? Are we not citizens of this great Country?

 

[gnahc79]

I'm not sure a household where a member suffers from depression or other severe mental issues must have a firearm to be considered a true citizen.

 

[OnFire]

I'd have serious trust issues with any type of militia. I get the concept but the modern USA is simply not what it was hundreds of years ago. Our society won't get better or progress if we are stuck in the past.

 

[GAJ]

It makes just as much sense now as it did then. All laws are violence. Those who possess the violence are the ones who possess the law. This is why our society was designed in the way it was. To ensure that Americans own their own society. Any society where the citizens are not able to overwhelmingly outgun the agents of the State (police) are subjects of the Police State, not free citizens. The role of the citizen soldier is the born birthright of every American. It is clearly documented in our laws and confirmed by the SCOTUS, I am not sure why this is confusing to you.

Anyone who thinks we can outgun the authorities is delusional.

If you have a gun fine.

There are many rational reasons to own one.

But not everyone needs a gun and not everyone is clear headed enough to own and use a gun responsibly.

To imply that not owning a gun is like choosing not to vote is just plain bananas.

The Constitution does not require Citizens to own guns.

 

[Johndicezx9]

There’s already an example of this historically; Rooftop Koreans.

Yeah, but before that was the killing of Latasha Harlins.

Unintended consequences, I guess,

 

[Bay Arean]

I'd have serious trust issues with any type of militia. I get the concept but the modern USA is simply not what it was hundreds of years ago. Our society won't get better or progress if we are stuck in the past.

Both yours and gnahcs arguments are very valid.

What makes guns antiquated is cyber-reality. I think the worst crimes now are in a digital area. I suppose the kind of arms we need now are computer-based somehow because our lives are being completely overtaken and scrutinized. But the thinking, of self-protection remains...


But we still do have physical existences and basic needs of square feet and nourishment to exist....

 

[Eldritch]

Anyone who thinks we can outgun the authorities is delusional.

If you have a gun fine.

There are many rational reasons to own one.

But not everyone needs a gun and not everyone is clear headed enough to own and use a gun responsibly.

To imply that not owning a gun is like choosing not to vote is just plain bananas.

The Constitution does not require Citizens to own guns.

I understand you have a very poor knowledge of contemporary violent state conflict and guerilla warfare tactics. I do not.

It is indisputable that the ownership of participation in the militia is the right of every American. It is not an issue for debate. The law is wildly clear.

Neither are citizens required to vote, but similarly, our society is better if the citizens do choose to take responsibility for their civic duty and participate. Along those same lines, the 1st would imply citizens have a responsibility to read and be informed before they do vote, and make educated decisions on issues through their own research.

If you do not study the issues, you rely on other citizens to shape the policy of society, if you do not vote, you rely on other citizens to own the leadership of society, if you do not prepare to participate in the militia, you rely on others to manage the safety of our society.

None of these are the actions of a responsible citizen.

Our citizenship does not require we behave responsibly with it and not take it for granted, but it certainly is nice when citizens do own those responsibilities.

Getting a firearm as a reaction out of fear doesn't sit well with me.

I agree. In an effort to not further distract into a debate with those who choose to let others manage their safety for them them, I would bring back this message as you indicated.

Citizens should possess arms out of responsibility, not fear. Those who purchase arms out of fear are more likely to use them irresponsibly, which is bad for our people.

My hope is that this issue does not continue to escalate in that direction, but I am doing my best to be an ally in whatever ways i can.

 

[Johndicezx9]

 

[GAJ]

I understand you have a very poor knowledge of contemporary violent state conflict and guerilla warfare tactics. I do not.

W. T. F.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

There’s already an example of this historically; Rooftop Koreans.

That’s not carrying guns; that’s lying with guns on rooftops.

 

[NSR500]

That’s not carrying guns; that’s lying with guns on rooftops.

They weren't always on the roof: https://www.kang.org/4-29-riots


Regardless...

To address the question at a more Macro level, an Armed Society is a Polite Society.

Having lived Internationally and Domestically in places with legal gun carry options and no carry options, the places where you could carry firearms was always safer.
Both from an anecdotal experience and a statistical one there was less crime and worry.
Specific to Asians, it is my observation that Gun Culture can be strong with the Vietnamese, Koreans, and Filipinos. It's also my observation that those are 3 Asian Ethnicities less likely to be picked on amongst the broader Asian Diaspora.