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Anti-Asian Hate Crimes

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NSR500 said:
Interesting.

Just watched this based on your book recommendation: https://youtu.be/dOnhjbAQ9gg

I'll have to read the book now.:thumbup
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I got plugged into that book because an old girlfriend of mine turned me on to it, because her mother was nearly taken by the Killers. The van pulled up, a door opened and a guy grabbed her, she fought and ran and got away.

So I read the book and was shocked in an era where the Zodiac (5 Murders) and the Manson Family (3 Murders) seem to get a new documentary or expose released every 2-5 years that I had never even heard of the Zebra Killings (15 murders) in San Francisco.

The story of the case is interesting, the details are fascinating, but perhaps the most interesting to me was the afterward where the author writes of not only his trouble in generating any interest in his story for sale, but also a terrible amount of resistance he experienced when trying to research with media personalities of the time for his book.

He explains persistent hesitance to dare have any conversations about an African American Crime spree intentionally and violently targeting people of another ethnic group and that such a conversation held fears from the interviewed that any discussion of such a topic by members of the news media could mean being outcast in the industry.

That made me sad.
 
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Eldritch said:
I got plugged into that book because an old girlfriend of mine turned me on to it, because her mother was nearly taken by the Killers. The van pulled up, a door opened and a guy grabbed her, she fought and ran and got away.

So I read the book and was shocked in an era where the Zodiac (5 Murders) and the Manson Family (3 Murders) seem to get a new documentary or expose released every 2-5 years that I had never even heard of the Zebra Killings (15 murders) in San Francisco.

The story of the case is interesting, the details are fascinating, but perhaps the most interesting to me was the afterward where the author writes of not only his trouble in generating any interest in his story for sale, but also a terrible amount of resistance he experienced when trying to research with media personalities of the time for his book.

He explains persistent hesitance to dare have any conversations about an African American Crime spree intentionally and violently targeting people of another ethnic group and that such a conversation held fears from the interviewed that any discussion of such a topic by members of the news media could mean being outcast in the industry.

That made me sad.
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It's a complicated thing.

I understand why they're hesitant to report black crime, which would just give racists more reasons and support to malign people from the black community.

At the same time, many inner city black communities are very different than white communities. An example, something I learned first hand coaching many black track athletes. In their community you can't show courtesy because that is a sign that you're afraid of the person you were courteous to. I'm a courteous person, by nature, and that has been misinterpreted many times until they got to know me. I walked up into the stands to confront one guy who took it that way, in the middle of the meet, in the center of their own team crowd. He did not expect that, he was taking cheap shots at me, verbally, thinking that I was scared of all of the black guys there. He backed down fast, just like any other bully, I never had a problem with parents from that team again. However, I had parents on our own team who misinterpreted my courtesy, at first, and had to evolve their perception. It's a real thing.

Back to the subject. Yes, there is bad blood between the black and asian communities, it's been a thing for decades. As with all long standing things of this sort, injection of blame for something to one of the sides can and will heighten tensions and lead to some taking it out on others. The White Nationalists revel in stoking these tensions, it gives them ammunition for their bigotry when they can incite violence between the two.

So, yes, it's related, and while it's not White on Asian crimes being committed, the source of part of this conflict does come from the White (Nationalist, etc.) community.
 
Climber said:
It's a complicated thing.

I understand why they're hesitant to report black crime, which would just give racists more reasons and support to malign people from the black community.

At the same time, many inner city black communities are very different than white communities. An example, something I learned first hand coaching many black track athletes. In their community you can't show courtesy because that is a sign that you're afraid of the person you were courteous to. I'm a courteous person, by nature, and that has been misinterpreted many times until they got to know me. I walked up into the stands to confront one guy who took it that way, in the middle of the meet, in the center of their own team crowd. He did not expect that, he was taking cheap shots at me, verbally, thinking that I was scared of all of the black guys there. He backed down fast, just like any other bully, I never had a problem with parents from that team again. However, I had parents on our own team who misinterpreted my courtesy, at first, and had to evolve their perception. It's a real thing.

Back to the subject. Yes, there is bad blood between the black and asian communities, it's been a thing for decades. As with all long standing things of this sort, injection of blame for something to one of the sides can and will heighten tensions and lead to some taking it out on others. The White Nationalists revel in stoking these tensions, it gives them ammunition for their bigotry when they can incite violence between the two.

So, yes, it's related, and while it's not White on Asian crimes being committed, the source of part of this conflict does come from the White (Nationalist, etc.) community.
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Well, I would have a couple of things to say about that. First off, no ethnic group has any responsibility to be more sensitive, cautious, accommodating, or should be held any less accountable for racism, prejudice, or being the bad actor than any other group. Hedging off racist practices is not a white responsibility, it is an American responsibility. Until all parties are held equally accountable, the movement continues to be an act of race aggression not an effort to build a more fair society. These false presentations are the reason so many moderates will not be moved in the more progressive direction. Accountability only works when it applies to all stake holders, without that shared responsibility it is just a lynch mob.

I can tell you that as a person who works in an industry very focused on social justice, most of the presentations and committees I have participated in on this issue strike me as hollow and insincere. Even in San Francisco, the most Asian dense City n the entire country, these groups, plans, and messages are always focused on Black and/or Latino needs and representation, and Asians almost always get left out of the equation as if their voice doesn't matter. It has long been a problem that perhaps in this new AAPI movement will finally be resolved.

In particular the community conflict you are talking about is almost exclusively an Urban conflict. White Nationalists and White Supremacists are almost exclusively fringe rural groups, the idea that those rare extremists are somehow pulling some strings on this urban clash seems pretty far fetched to me. We have already talked in here about it being fueled more by a competition for resources (Housing, Services, Commercial Space, Etc.) in dense urban environments.

Do you have any evidence to support such a claim at all? I would honestly be very interested to see it.
 
Holeshot said:
I believe NSR has been pointing to the over use of "white supremacy" as misreporting, and linking to articles with victims and attackers. I also believe NSR and Scorp to be of the affected (attacked) group, from my reading between the lines.
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But the "mainstream media" is not representing attacks on Asian Americans as a "White Supremacy" issue at all.

So while it is fine to link articles showing hate crimes towards Asians by Blacks or any other race it is very very odd to gleefully announce, "see, not white supremacy."

White Supremacy is a problem in the US and in recent years the FBI "has formally elevated the threat from white supremacist groups to its top priority level, alongside Isis and its network of homegrown terrorists, Mr Wray said."

Anti Asian crime is a problem in the US that has increased substantially with Covid.

Two separate issues.
 
Eldritch said:
Well, I would have a couple of things to say about that. First off, no ethnic group has any responsibility to be more sensitive, cautious, accommodating, or should be held any less accountable for racism, prejudice, or being the bad actor than any other group. Hedging off racist practices is not a white responsibility, it is an American responsibility. Until all parties are held equally accountable, the movement continues to be an act of race aggression not an effort to build a more fair society. These false presentations are the reason so many moderates will not be moved in the more progressive direction. Accountability only works when it applies to all stake holders, without that shared responsibility it is just a lynch mob.

I can tell you that as a person who works in an industry very focused on social justice, most of the presentations and committees I have participated in on this issue strike me as hollow and insincere. Even in San Francisco, the most Asian dense City n the entire country, these groups, plans, and messages are always focused on Black and/or Latino needs and representation, and Asians almost always get left out of the equation as if their voice doesn't matter. It has long been a problem that perhaps in this new AAPI movement will finally be resolved.

In particular the community conflict you are talking about is almost exclusively an Urban conflict. White Nationalists and White Supremacists are almost exclusively fringe rural groups, the idea that those rare extremists are somehow pulling some strings on this urban clash seems pretty far fetched to me. We have already talked in here about it being fueled more by a competition for resources (Housing, Services, Commercial Space, Etc.) in dense urban environments.

Do you have any evidence to support such a claim at all? I would honestly be very interested to see it.
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We already know that there was existing friction that goes back a long ways.

We know that in such a dynamic, it's relatively easy to stir up further friction with blame or misinformation. That's just human nature.

If there has been an elevation during the pandemic, I don't think it takes much imagination to see how blaming Chinese for the woes of the pandemic could raise the friction. Some people who already dislike others will always be easier to influence against the people they already have a dislike or distrust for. Again, just human nature.

Rhetoric does have an impact on at least some, in it's target audience. If that wasn't the case, there would be much less rhetoric.
 
Climber said:
We already know that there was existing friction that goes back a long ways.

We know that in such a dynamic, it's relatively easy to stir up further friction with blame or misinformation. That's just human nature.

If there has been an elevation during the pandemic, I don't think it takes much imagination to see how blaming Chinese for the woes of the pandemic could raise the friction. Some people who already dislike others will always be easier to influence against the people they already have a dislike or distrust for. Again, just human nature.

Rhetoric does have an impact on at least some, in it's target audience. If that wasn't the case, there would be much less rhetoric.
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I mean sure, that makes a certain amount of sense, but I mostly blame the last President for that. I don't think any white nationalists or white supremacists were involved. :dunno
 
Lame how masses of people are so easily influenced by what a president says instead of thinking for themselves.
 
Blankpage said:
Lame how masses of people are so easily influenced by what a president says instead of thinking for themselves.
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GAJ said:
But the "mainstream media" is not representing attacks on Asian Americans as a "White Supremacy" issue at all.

..
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I think he's just sarcastically inserting "White Supremacy" in order to troll against "mainstream media". I agree with you, I cannot remember immediately of anything about "WS", that the "mainstream media" is inflaming.

If anything... Twitter would be more at fault of doing that.
 
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I think I'd be massively embarrassed if I ever found myself following anything on Twitter. :laughing
 
AbsolutEnduser said:
I think he's just sarcastically inserting "White Supremacy" in order to troll against "mainstream media". I agree with you, I cannot remember immediately of anything about "WS", that the "mainstream media" is inflaming.

If anything... Twitter would be more at fault of doing that.
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It was the kneejerk narrative when this issue became a media storm.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/18/politics/white-supremacy-racism-asian-americans/index.html

Since the situation has continued to escalate and honkies have mainly stayed out of it, that narrative has mostly died and now people only want to talk about how Asians matter.

Making one group easy to blame and exciting to blame while not holding other groups equally accountable for their behavior is exactly how you alienate said excessively blamed group to your cause. It is prejudiced and it is not helping.

Where is the 24 CNN outrage over this one?

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/vi...-a-murderer-during-traffic-stop-in-san-dimas/

When will people realize they are being played?
 
Eldritch said:
It was the kneejerk narrative when this issue became a media storm.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/18/politics/white-supremacy-racism-asian-americans/index.html

Since the situation has continued to escalate and honkies have mainly stayed out of it, that narrative has mostly died and now people only want to talk about how Asians matter.

Making one group easy to blame and exciting to blame while not holding other groups equally accountable for their behavior is exactly how you alienate said excessively blamed group to your cause. It is prejudiced and it is not helping.

Where is the 24 CNN outrage over this one?

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/vi...-a-murderer-during-traffic-stop-in-san-dimas/

When will people realize they are being played?
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Good thing the deputy had his own body worn camera during that stop. That will save him an immense amount of grief.
 
tzrider said:
FTFY :laughing
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I was afraid someone would go there. There is currently no evidence whatsoever that this is the case as much as many of a certain oppostion group LOVE to claim it. Even if a white person is deeply racist in behavior, that does not make them a white nationalist or white supremacists.

Those are two different, but similar, very specific extremist view points that are far more dangerous that another typical old Boomer Bigot. It is again when such words are used casually and incorrectly that you lose the interest of moderates.

The moderates are still the ones who decide what wins. All this extremism is people forgetting that, which is why no one ever seems to really win anymore.

Holeshot said:
Troof. Unless they want (need) to get played. Dopamine and all.
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Sadly, it isn't even hidden. The news is out there, people just don't give a shit. They would rather selfishly self indulge and attack their neighbor in cheap easy anger than show the restraint and decency Americans deserve from one another.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/30/5600...sions-long-before-2016-and-black-lives-matter
 
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