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Anti-Asian Hate Crimes

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Climber said:
Interesting perspective.

I've always viewed hate crimes as a crime committed against and individual based upon them being part of a sub-group like race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Basically they're targeted for being a member, not for something specific to them, aside from their inclusion in a group.

However, by that definition, attacking somebody who mistakenly wore the wrong color should also be treated as a hate crime. The devil is in the details, especially when establishing motive (beyond a reasonable doubt).
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Yeah, I get that perspective (and used to share it). I at one point realized that "Hate" implies motive which made me think of it differently. Also, by defining a hate crime as any crime targeted against a certain group then makes any crime a hate crime if said crime were premeditated which is where I think we are now tbh
 
Joshman said:
Yeah, I get that perspective (and used to share it). I at one point realized that "Hate" implies motive which made me think of it differently. Also, by defining a hate crime as any crime targeted against a certain group then makes any crime a hate crime if said crime were premeditated which is where I think we are now tbh
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I do have some concerns about the way hate crimes are applied.

On one hand, there are some very real problems out there of individuals targeting people based upon a perceived group that they're part of.

on the other hand, there is an implied greater value put on one person's suffering or life than on another person's based upon the group that they're part of.

I think that there have been blunders along the way in trying to solve an existing problem, and in typical bumbling manner the solution was not a solid one that would hold up well under debate or scrutiny.

Too often the solution is to go the blanket approach, often to punish the many for the crimes of the few. A better approach, IMHO, would have been to hammer the lowlife scum who would target anybody with violence, based upon them being part of an perceived group. By designating some groups as being more worthy of resulting in greater punishment to the criminal, they're creating understandable resentment from a portion of the population.
 
IDK I'm ok with the concept of the hate crime. It identifies a very specific failing of society whether it be lack of community support, material conditions etc.
 
Climber said:
A better approach, IMHO, would have been to hammer the lowlife scum who would target anybody with violence, based upon them being part of an perceived group. By designating some groups as being more worthy of resulting in greater punishment to the criminal, they're creating understandable resentment from a portion of the population.
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I can see that. I kind of think of it like this however; I don't really care what one's motives are. Cracking down on violent crimes should be universal, not less severe for one group vs another.

Reminds me of a while back when a gay guy got beat up and the assailant was charged with a hate crime. Turns out the assailant had no idea the other guy was gay. I usually don't like using anecdotes, but I think this gets to my point.

Maybe we're saying the same thing
 
Joshman said:
I can see that. I kind of think of it like this however; I don't really care what one's motives are. Cracking down on violent crimes should be universal, not less severe for one group vs another.

Reminds me of a while back when a gay guy got beat up and the assailant was charged with a hate crime. Turns out the assailant had no idea the other guy was gay. I usually don't like using anecdotes, but I think this gets to my point.

Maybe we're saying the same thing
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That is not an example of an unconstitutional law, rather the law being abused by the agents of the State.

It really represents why I do not like Hate Crime laws and prefer they not be on the books. Certainly the State can add severity to a charge based on motivation to commit the crime, this is not a constitutional problem, but the hate crime motivation is often so wildly difficult to PROVE in a fashion that is beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
As a victim of racial verbal abuse and physical attack, I feel better that the USA government has passed laws against hate crimes. However in many of these attacks on the news, it’s mainly one group doing the attacks and no one here and even the media seems to have the courage to say it. I guess its a bannable offence so I’ll comply and not say what group it is. I also feel this group doing the attacks and robberies are actually NOT doing it out of hate. My parents and I have talked to them before when they’ve been handcuffed and apprehended by police. They don’t say they hate us. Just that we are easy targets to steal and rob. I also want to say I don’t hate all of them. Just the ones that commit crimes and the people that let them back outside on the streets.
 
Eldritch said:
That is not an example of an unconstitutional law, rather the law being abused by the agents of the State.

It really represents why I do not like Hate Crime laws and prefer they not be on the books. Certainly the State can add severity to a charge based on motivation to commit the crime, this is not a constitutional problem, but the hate crime motivation is often so wildly difficult to PROVE in a fashion that is beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Yes, I 100% agree with this.
I wasn't trying to make any points about constitutionality, rather that intent is a tricky thing and shouldn't be part of a general classification unless tried where intent were "proven."
 
ScorpioVI said:
I'm 42.

I was that FOB kid. New to the country, freshman year in high school, San Leandro High School had a lot of asians but I was asianer than most so it was OK to pick on me. Got a lot of shit from the black kids (and only the black kids). Ended up fighting one of them (Nwozuzu FU wherever you are) ended up with a black eye and a suspension. Ended up joining a Filipino gang (KNP) and almost started a brawl in the schoolyard when the whole posse came to back me up. The harassment from the black kids did stop after that but the gang involvement would haunt me long after...
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The 80's typical story of how south east asian street gangs were born. Self defense from the blacks and browns because you were different and new in the hood.
 
Eldritch said:
Use this.

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=7226
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Thanks for the link to office data. And my hypothesis is correct for assault and robbery for 2018. And I’m pretty sure they will also be correct for those statistics will be like for 2020 and 2021. Also, I suspect the amount of crime being officially reported is on the lower end because many victims are reluctant to report the crime, especially Asians.
 
DesiDucati said:
Thanks for the link to office data. And my hypothesis is correct for assault and robbery for 2018. And I’m pretty sure they will also be correct for those statistics will be like for 2020 and 2021. Also, I suspect the amount of crime being officially reported is on the lower end because many victims are reluctant to report the crime, especially Asians.
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I am notoriously neutral on most issues and usually spend most of these argument threads just correcting people on their data, logic, and system models without any real investment in agendas.

All I care about is true and honest systems that work well and function cleanly.

I am unclear on what exactly your hypothesis is? If you can present it succinctly, I would be happy to offer feedback that is supportive of idea sharing.
 
DesiDucati said:
Thanks for the link to office data. And my hypothesis is correct for assault and robbery for 2018. And I’m pretty sure they will also be correct for those statistics will be like for 2020 and 2021. Also, I suspect the amount of crime being officially reported is on the lower end because many victims are reluctant to report the crime, especially Asians.
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Still waiting to see pics of your bike, man.
 
Personally I think this is an attempt by the Media to divide us once again. And as mentally weak as people are it won't take much to have us all looking at each other with suspicion. Corona has EVERYONE on edge and right now you cannot be perceived as a target as they say blood is in the water and the Sharks are circling.

Travel in groups, be aware of your surroundings, carry pepper spray.
And I also find this portrayal of Asians as weak to be bullshit. I remember when a pack of Asian dudes caught me and my cousin cutting school over near James Denman Middle school and beat the brakes off of us LOL. These guys out here involved in all the fuckery WILL run into a group of young Asian savages and they are going to regret it. I got my head slammed in someones gate and about 25 stitches behind my ear you know what I learned TRAVEL IN A BIGGER GROUP.

This is more a decline in moral decency than a coordinated attack on a specific ethnicity. I've stepped in between a group of kids accosting a older Asian woman on BART before when you project confidence and make it known you are willing to legitimately fuck someone up they back off. Asians need to start doling out some vicious street justice and I guarantee this shit stops.
 
Critter said:
Personally I think this is an attempt by the Media to divide us once again. And as mentally weak as people are it won't take much to have us all looking at each other with suspicion. Corona has EVERYONE on edge and right now you cannot be perceived as a target as they say blood is in the water and the Sharks are circling.

Travel in groups, be aware of your surroundings, carry pepper spray.
And I also find this portrayal of Asians as weak to be bullshit. I remember when a pack of Asian dudes caught me and my cousin cutting school over near James Denman Middle school and beat the brakes off of us LOL. These guys out here involved in all the fuckery WILL run into a group of young Asian savages and they are going to regret it. I got my head slammed in someones gate and about 25 stitches behind my ear you know what I learned TRAVEL IN A BIGGER GROUP.

This is more a decline in moral decency than a coordinated attack on a specific ethnicity. I've stepped in between a group of kids accosting a older Asian woman on BART before when you project confidence and make it known you are willing to legitimately fuck someone up they back off. Asians need to start doling out some vicious street justice and I guarantee this shit stops.
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Small world. I went to Denman when it was predominately black.

Thanks for helping the old lady.

But I disagree that it's the media's fault. Elderly Asians are being picked on and some of them have died. It's the Asian community that has called attention to this crisis, not the media.
 
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