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Audi RS6 Avant Wagon

mrmarklin said:
Having owned several German cars for over 30 years I really don't get the angst. None have ever had any more than normal maintenance.:x
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It depends on model when it comes to German, not brand. They all have model that just sucks and breaks all the time, some have more than others.
BMW been worst and Porsche best. In last 15 years I had good share of Germans. Still have 2015 S5 wife drives daily. This one is to the point it is not worth much so selling it is out. I just keep changing oil and we see how long it lasts.
I do work on my cars. Couple years ago I rebuilt Porsche engine, it was much simpler and easier than what they want you to believe.
 
Kornholio said:
There is no Cadillac on the market that tops its European counterpart in the same class. Sorry. If you're obsessed with Americana, sure, it'll always be "better". :twofinger

Call me Jeremy Clarkson...I don't care. America doesn't build top-tier sport sedans/wagons.
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For luxury, yeah...can't disagree. Euro interiors shit all over Cadillac interiors.

But, if you want cheap ownership cost, top notch performance; nothing beats a Corvette or V-line Caddy. The 6.2L motor is more robust than its German counter parts and the aftermarket and simplicity makes for great track cars.

Plus, the brakes. Porsche has got the pedal feel and power just right. So does Cadillac (and Corvette, really). The electronic shit they run on the Audi/ BMW S and M series cars is distracting and frustrating. The best brake pedal feel and power I've felt besides the Porsches, is the Gen 2 CTS-V. No electronics and excellent (brembo) pads. That car is amazing for what it costs, new and used.

weak_link said:
A lot of great info in here and thank you Kornholio for 'getting me' and why I want a wagon and not a 911. If I could have both, I would, but I cannot.
Thanks for the tip of the Mercedes Berto, I'll do some research and figure out if I can do this or not.
Seriously, my gf and I pack for a weekend as if we're going to shit our pants 4 times a day for a weekend away. Somehow we can pull it off on the Multi but as soon as we get in a car we go overboard. Every. Fucking. Time.
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If you want any help on buying one wholesale or just places to look, drop me a line Eric. Above all: PICS when you get whatever you it is you...get.
 
weak_link said:
A lot of great info in here and thank you Kornholio for 'getting me' and why I want a wagon and not a 911. If I could have both, I would, but I cannot.
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Sometimes I actually do understand the assignment. :thumbup

Holeshot said:
For luxury, yeah...can't disagree. Euro interiors shit all over Cadillac interiors.

But, if you want cheap ownership cost, top notch performance; nothing beats a Corvette or V-line Caddy. The 6.2L motor is more robust than its German counter parts and the aftermarket and simplicity makes for great track cars.
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See, that's what I'm talking about. The German sports cars don't need an aftermarket to be great track cars. They are already track killers out of the box. I don't want to have to play "weekend engineer warrior" to outfit my pushrod V8-powered overweight lump so that it's a capable corner carver. True, the latest generations of Corvettes are better performers than they've really ever been, but they're nothing like a 911 or damn near anything from McLaren. For the most part, Americans are far too obsessed with straight-line performance so there's no need for the manufacturers to actually innovate beyond that and it shows.

Holeshot said:
Plus, the brakes. Porsche has got the pedal feel and power just right. So does Cadillac (and Corvette, really). The electronic shit they run on the Audi/ BMW S and M series cars is distracting and frustrating. The best brake pedal feel and power I've felt besides the Porsches, is the Gen 2 CTS-V. No electronics and excellent (brembo) pads. That car is amazing for what it costs, new and used.
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You're showing your luddite side again. :teeth

Give it time. If GM wants to compete, they're not going to have a choice. You can only make non-electronic systems so light before you can't go any further. They're going to have to get there eventually and all they're doing for now is spending more money to avoid the inevitable.

Furthermore, I stopped drinking the pushrod Kool-Aid years ago much the same way the rest of the world did. American manufacturers are sticking to it for (IMO) largely nostalgic reasons as there's really not a practical reason for it. Same way Ducati refuses to let go of desmodronic valve trains. There's no practical reason for them anymore and they're not helping Ducati produce more power or avoid anything the other manufacturers didn't engineer out decades ago. I don't subscribe to the "no replacement for displacement" ideal either. The European interiors are top notch, yes. Even the Japanese luxury interiors suck compared to their European counterparts. But it's far beyond that. American "luxury" cars, sport or otherwise, are so "plasticy" and poorly assembled. NJY UR panel gaps and rattles.
 
Kornholio said:
See, that's what I'm talking about. The German sports cars don't need an aftermarket to be great track cars. They are already track killers out of the box. I don't want to have to play "weekend engineer warrior" to outfit my pushrod V8-powered overweight lump so that it's a capable corner carver. True, the latest generations of Corvettes are better performers than they've really ever been, but they're nothing like a 911 or damn near anything from McLaren.
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Porsche is the only German company that makes cars that do well on the track, and even then it really is just the GT3 and GT2. Taking a regular 911 to the track is going to require modifications just like all the other cars. The Corvettes are also comparable in weight to their intended competition. My stock 2007 Z06 is less than 3300lbs with a full tank of gas and me in the drivers seat with 50.1 / 49.9 weight distribution.

And to be clear, I'm not a Corvette Guy. No ponytail, no gold chain, no chest hair poking out my shirt, no microfiber towel or quick detailing spray, no Hawaiian shirt, and I drive it in the rain. Shit, the only think I own that says 'Corvette' on it is the car. Find me a car with the same cost to performance ratio, and I'm IN. The Exige was on my radar for a while, but...horsepower.
 
Kornholio said:
True, the latest generations of Corvettes are better performers than they've really ever been, but they're nothing like a 911 or damn near anything from McLaren. For the most part, Americans are far too obsessed with straight-line performance so there's no need for the manufacturers to actually innovate beyond that and it shows.
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I guess all those 911 GT3s I passed at my last track day didn’t get your memo. They’re with me in corner speed, but that straight line performance Americans are obsessed with had them giving me the point by.
 
On a fun note.

One of my best friends has an original Audi RS6. He's had it around 20 years and it was bought brand new. These have v-8 engines and was VW's top of the line car back in the day. The Porsche was not part of the VW group then.
It has appreciated from its original purchase price, as not many were made, and even less with right hand drive. He lives in England.

The only thing that's ever gone wrong with it is the shifter (it's automatic) sensors quit working and we couldn't shift gears. Luckily we were on a trip to Germany at the time and were able to take it to a dealer. We think the fault was due to the English weather. He lives in Cheshire County, the wettest part of the UK, and sitting in an unheated garage just corroded the electro-mechanical sensors over time. A simple replacement was all that was needed. Of course, it took aa week to get the part, so we had to rent aa car for the rest of the trip. Luckily MBZs are rental cars in Germany, so we did OK.

All in all I think you would be happy with the Audi.:)
 
Enchanter said:
Porsche is the only German company that makes cars that do well on the track, and even then it really is just the GT3 and GT2. Taking a regular 911 to the track is going to require modifications just like all the other cars. The Corvettes are also comparable in weight to their intended competition. My stock 2007 Z06 is less than 3300lbs with a full tank of gas and me in the drivers seat with 50.1 / 49.9 weight distribution.
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They all make cars that are good around track. Audi R8 is fine, so are M cars. Or Camaro/Mustang to add more of heavy metal. You can take almost any car and do well at the track.
You can even roll 4 door MB sedan around :)
 

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Kornholio said:
A novice in a supercar is a still a novice. :nchantr
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I’m far from anyone who knows what they’re doing too. Thats why they put us all in the same run group. My car is just faster than theirs, period.

Taking novices out of it, we’ll use the same driver. The hired gun pro driver everybody uses for Laguna, Randy Pobst. His best time in the 991 GT3RS is 1:33.29. He did it in a C7 Z06 a couple tenths quicker and did it in the ZR1 in 1:32.46. He’s done some really fast McLarens (P1 and 720S) in the 1:29 and 1:30’s. And some other pushrod engined American car called a Viper or whatever, he got that to do a 1:28.65.

I dunno about you, but to me it seems like America does know how to make cars that do more than just drag race.
 
weak_link said:
Hi Barf,

Long time, no talk.

Do we have an opinion on overpriced sports wagons? IDK why, but they are my thing. I can't come anywhere close to paying for the new m5 wagon and can barely afford a cpo Audi RS6 Avant Wagon. Am I chasing the dragon here or has anyone owned a one who can convince me not to want one? Seriously, tell me why I don't want one. My impulse control is weak and I need someone, y'all, to talk some sense into me. I love the idea of sports wagon performance with almost SUV-like space to pack up weekend project supplies from HD or Lowes. We also need storage space for habitual overpackers without feeling cramped or as if we need to put stuff in the back seat. Folding seats sound great. I'm currently in a Lexus ES350 squish-mobile for comparison.
My BMW ownership experience was less than fantastic and I'm a little gunshy on German cars. This would be a big commitment for me but after my accident last year bikes are becoming less viable and cars are becoming more appealing. I know, it sucks, but taking my bff on long-distance rides if I don't have total confidence in my shoulder to put the bike where I want it, when I want it our there makes me nervous.
Talk me out of doing stupid shit and making a very expensive mistake.

OR....did/ do you own one and love it? Inquiring minds want to know!
thx,
W_L
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Well, my Uncle spent his entire life after he got out of the Air Force as a VW/Audi specialist mechanic who didn't work much a dealerships, mostly private shops in Marin and SF that saw a lot of different not cheap vehicles.

His opinion is that Audi is trash, never buy that shit, only a wildly ignorant person would buy that brand.
 
TWF said:
They all make cars that are good around track. Audi R8 is fine, so are M cars. Or Camaro/Mustang to add more of heavy metal. You can take almost any car and do well at the track.
You can even roll 4 door MB sedan around :)
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You CAN roll a big body MB sedan around the track. That doesn't mean it's very good at it :laughing
 

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TWF said:
They all make cars that are good around track. Audi R8 is fine, so are M cars. Or Camaro/Mustang to add more of heavy metal. You can take almost any car and do well at the track.
You can even roll 4 door MB sedan around :)
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OK yes, all those cars go good around the track, but for how long? 2-3 laps? If you want to go faster than good, and try and run in the 'A-group', only the GT3 and GT2 will hold out for a full 20-30min session in stock 'as delivered' form.
 
Enchanter said:
And to be clear, I'm not a Corvette Guy. No ponytail, no gold chain, no chest hair poking out my shirt, no microfiber towel or quick detailing spray, no Hawaiian shirt...
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I am very disappointed.
 
Enchanter said:
OK yes, all those cars go good around the track, but for how long? 2-3 laps? If you want to go faster than good, and try and run in the 'A-group', only the GT3 and GT2 will hold out for a full 20-30min session in stock 'as delivered' form.
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I have 0 problems doing 30 min sessions all day long in A group with my boss 302 ($40k pos American iron).
Like saying Latest top of the line Ducati is track bike but R6 is not.
I do get what you trying to say but you drawing line in wrong place, imo.
 
TWF said:
I have 0 problems doing 30 min sessions all day long in A group with my boss 302 ($40k pos American iron).
Like saying Latest top of the line Ducati is track bike but R6 is not.
I do get what you trying to say but you drawing line in wrong place, imo.
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Well, no. The R6 is a well designed machine that actually works. ;)
 
TWF said:
So do many other cars besides GT3/GT2.
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And many other bikes, just not anything designed by Italians.

Something is deeply and terribly wrong with mechanical engineering education in Italy.
 
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