See, that's what I'm talking about. The German sports cars don't need an aftermarket to be great track cars. They are already track killers out of the box.
Sports sedans, right? Taking the supercars out, here. Dollars matter. German cars DO need aftermarket ...they all do. Brake pads most times. They all go good, but like Tim said below; not always for full sessions. And consumables are more costly on the Euro stuff after the drivers burn through their rear brake pads.
You're showing your luddite side again.
Give it time. If GM wants to compete, they're not going to have a choice. You can only make non-electronic systems so light before you can't go any further. They're going to have to get there eventually and all they're doing for now is spending more money to avoid the inevitable.
Luddite must = racing...which I'm totally ok with. There's chassis and there's power plant. With the advent of hub motors, etc, they've become a bit more mixed into one another. The problem with EV power is stamina, weight, and heat. We've had EV race bikes on track for over a decade now and yet, very little progress. I had a conversation with a friend/ engineer at one of the larger EV brands and he explained the problems with getting 5-6 axis IMU tech to work with the EV power plants. Electronics on modern ICE vehicles are the trump card, really. Of course, so is a 2.2 second pitstop for fuel. In the trackday world, it's no different. Gotta carry that extra weight around and plug in as soon as you get off track. Don't mind that you burned through so much ferrous brake material, you'll need a nice chunk for those pads at the dealership...
All jokes aside, GM produces some great cars at great prices. In evidence, I give you the 2022 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE. For about $75K, you'll run with a year newer Huracan Evo. If you're in Rob's ZR1, you run 5 second off a McLaren Senna and 2 seconds off a GT2 Weissach. On a 2:40 lap time. Cost always comes into play in cars. The GT2's are awesome...especially the Weissach's. But passing one of those in your Camaro, showroom stock, is way awesome. And they can be had for less than $50K many times...but the 1LE track pack isn't easy to find. Use the C&D lightning lap as a good guide. One of the best for straight compros.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/
If I told you wasn't watching this for a track car, I'd be fibbing...
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/36kModeZ/2018-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-coupe
I don't subscribe to the "no replacement for displacement" ideal either. The European interiors are top notch, yes. Even the Japanese luxury interiors suck compared to their European counterparts. But it's far beyond that. American "luxury" cars, sport or otherwise, are so "plasticy" and poorly assembled. NJY UR panel gaps and rattles.
Torque is what makes for good exits. That's why gets your nose ahead of the other guy off the corner and what makes cars shine on twisty tracks. Have you driven any of the upper end American stuff? My CTS-V has no rattles. None. My S8 has several in annoying places. Search the web and you can read all about the center speaker rattle, the rattle behind the dash that's impossible to get to and the overhead console rattle. I've got 2/3 to fix. The interior is top notch, but lately, Genesis is beating German counter parts in interior quality / value IMO. Fluid filed A-arms and electronic fluid filled motor mounts are just a way to break your dollars away from you 35K mlles later.
Find me a car with the same cost to performance ratio, and I'm IN. The Exige was on my radar for a while, but...horsepower.
Yup, my CTS-V was a former VLAB car for 1,800 miles of its life. I've changed oil, all fluids (aged out) and recently, rotors and pads. I did hubs too due to its previous life. I've had one warranty issue with the (horrible) Cue system. The car is phenomenal, a track star for a sedan and brakes are easy to do at home with $1,200 in parts. The Audi...not so much. Brakes last about 25K miles on the street and run about $3K for front change at a shop.
I guess all those 911 GT3s I passed at my last track day didn’t get your memo. They’re with me in corner speed, but that straight line performance Americans are obsessed with had them giving me the point by.
Straight line performance is more repeatable in a race / timed situation anyway. Less tire flex/ side load on the tire and thus, less tire pressure buildup. Not to mention: high corner speeds may affect exit drives anyway.
On a fun note.
One of my best friends has an original Audi RS6. He's had it around 20 years and it was bought brand new.
All in all I think you would be happy with the Audi.
You've got to have a pic! the RS6 from that era was epic goodness.
A novice in a supercar is a still a novice.
Depends what vintage. Electronics have gotten so good these days that the difference in lap times from a novice to expert driver has become much closer. Remember when pro drivers were regularly crashing gen 1 and 2 Vipers on track?
They all make cars that are good around track. Audi R8 is fine, so are M cars. Or Camaro/Mustang to add more of heavy metal. You can take almost any car and do well at the track.
You can even roll 4 door MB sedan around
We kinda got into this over performance wagons, right? And a wagon is pretty much the sedan with a hatch grafted onto it, right? So, sticking to the sedan segment, I still believe the US produces one of the best Sedans in the world, and certainly the best for track days at its price point. Only the Panamera Turbo S appears better for lapping than a CT5 Blackwing. The problem with the Audi, BMW, and Mercedes sedans, while quick for a few laps, are their heft...likely due to the AWD systems.
https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=561229&stc=1&d=1714161107
If you have a few corners on the way to the grocery store. Surprised at the dealer license plate bracket since this is in Bologna.
Cars or bikes I figured it was the operator more than motor type or brand.
Those are great looking cars!
