Slow riding practice tips?

[beginner]

Getting yourself out on a public road!

I get on public roads on virtually every ride but they are quiet and slow and generally for short distances. An argument is being made that PLP is no benefit except for riding at slow speeds. "The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph..." Hurt Report. PLP appears to be relevent even if you believe it's doesn't teach anything about going fast.

And that would be because.... wait for it... You haven't tried trials!

Some trials exercises and techniques are universal. Some of their training priorities should interest all riders, but to do much of anything they do requires a bike with no seat and a suspension with no shock damping. I have no plans to own a bike like that.

My posts will no longer go into the reasons that you are incorrect. They will be short and to the point.

Your posts NEVER touch on reasons because your posts never go into specifics. It's a rhetorical style you've perfected.

 

[froride1]

I get on public roads on virtually every ride but they are quiet and slow and generally for short distances. An argument is being made that PLP is no benefit except for riding at slow speeds. "The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph..." Hurt Report. PLP appears to be relevent even if you believe it's doesn't teach anything about going fast.Some trials exercises and techniques are universal. Some of their training priorities should interest all riders, but to do much of anything they do requires a bike with no seat and a suspension with no shock damping. I have no plans to own a bike like that.Your posts NEVER touch on reasons because your posts never go into specifics. It's a rhetorical style you've perfected.

You can do trials on any bike, your just showing how clueless you are about things outside your little box. Thier suspension has plenty of damping it is set up for a specific style of riding so it appears as if there is little to no damping. You do have your suspension set up for your weight and riding style, don't you. A trials bike is a very narrow focus machine but trials skills and the equipment needed to learn the skills are not. You could, if you wanted to exppnad your mind a little, learn trial skills just fine on your KLX. Of course, we all know that won't happen because you have already made your mind up about everything.




FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, I got drug into the Beginner vortex again. He is like the borg, resistance is futile.

 

[Tydive]

An argument is being made that PLP is no benefit except for riding at slow speeds.

May I suggest you google "parking lot practice" and click on the msgroup.org link? It may help you understand why your assumptions are so far off from reality. Also read about counter steering and what happens over 15 mph.

If you really want to be better at slow speed develop these skills:
Wheel placement.
Head and eyes.
Feathering and fanning the clutch.
Watch "Ride like a Pro" DVD, do patterns.
Do your regular exercises on multiple surfaces.

In future if your objective is to get good specific advise then stop spouting misinformation. Simply ask, don't try to pass your guesses off as facts, or refer to old crap stats.

If your objective is to Troll, dude... You are my freaking hero

 

[Enchanter]

Your posts NEVER touch on reasons because your posts never go into specifics. It's a rhetorical style you've perfected.

The reason that I avoid passing on little nuggets of information is that you will grasp on to that nugget and avoid everything else. I’m actually trying to help you become a better rider, but your condition keeps getting in the way. But you know that don't you?

I do not refute that practicing skills are important. Let me repeat myself once again I have more time riding in a parking lot than you do. Where you and I disagree is when you:
• claim that someone cannot be ready to ride on the street unless they have spent at least three years in a parking lot. You are wrong.
• claim that rolling backwards after stopping is a sign of skilled braking. You are wrong.
• claim that the balance one uses at less than 10mph is useful at normal street speeds. You are wrong.
Let me try again: Practicing in a parking lot is valuable, and very fun. I draw issue with your stupid correlations (example: “If 50% of riders started riding parking lots, crash rates would drop by 50%”).

 

[tzrider]

The thread will die if it's ignored, so ignore it.

Beginner and I are in violent agreement about the above. It's worth considering.

 

[froride1]

Oh, one more thing about the relevance of your slow speed endless parking lot practice. I refuse to use the silly PLP. While slow speed parctice is relevant to higher speeds, motorcycles react and feel differently at different speeds. If you never go more that 30 mph you will never know how your bike feels. Take you KLX for instance, through rough terrain it will feel different at different speeds. Some speeds it will feel very rough and the suspension harsh. Then, like magic, at a certain speed it will feel much smoother. Almost like you are gluiding over the rough stuff. Do you Know why?

Because the suspension works better at differnt speeds depending on the set-up and your are actually gluiding over the rough terrain.

If you want a little advice about riding off road, "when in doubt, GAS IT" It takes a leap of faith to implement but it works.

 

[MikeyRocks]

To analogize what you're doing via a sports metaphor (let's choose basketball), you are practicing dribbling. That is all you are doing. No footwork, no passing, no shooting, just dribbling. You have never even played a full game of basketball in your life. Yet you are bemoaning the fact that no professional basketball players want to listen to you lecture about the importance of practicing dribbling.

I think what you have been missing (or actively ignoring) fact that slow-speed maneuvering practice is a small piece of a much larger puzzle. It's an important piece, yes, but it's not by any stretch of the imagination the be-all and end-all of two-wheeled physics. By treating PLP like it is and putting it on such a pedestal, you are actually greatly hurting yourself by willfully disregarding the rest of the puzzle. You police bridge-stop crash was a perfect example of this: since you didn't have any practice operating outside of a small, sterile environment, the addition of a few variables that shouldn't have needed a second thought caused you to wipe out completely.

Best post of this thread. Too bad he'll never understand the point of this post...

Beginner: I feel sorry for your mother...

 

[beginner]

click on the msgroup.org link?

I'm familiar with that forum the same as many others.

It may help you understand why your assumptions are so far off from reality. Also read about counter steering and what happens over 15 mph.

My approach to issues like counter steering is to have an authoritative bike dynamics text in hand, learn the accepted physics for what interests me then try to confirm it in practice, on the bike. Here is an excellent bike dynamics book written in plain language.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/37380689/Motorcycle-Handling-and-Chassis-Design

If you really want to be better at slow speed develop these skills: Wheel placement. Head and eyes. Feathering and fanning the clutch. Watch "Ride like a Pro" DVD, do patterns. Do your regular exercises on multiple surfaces.

Off road single tracks and parking lot maneuvers with tight marks help with wheel placement. Slow riding and start/stop on the pegs have been good for clutch practice. Besides the parking lot we have 4 off road locations with figure 8 pads.

The reason that I avoid passing on little nuggets of information is that you will grasp on to that nugget and avoid everything else. I’m actually trying to help you become a better rider, but your condition keeps getting in the way. But you know that don't you?

My interest is exchanging ideas and tips about PLP with other people who do PLP. If we share that interest then let's exhange ideas and tips.

I have more time riding in a parking lot than you do.

Then you could talk about your favorite exercises or how PLP helped you or what your PLP routine is today. You could but you haven't.

I draw issue with your stupid correlations (example: “If 50% of riders started riding parking lots, crash rates would drop by 50%”).

I'm not sure of my exact words but what I meant is crashs that result in serious injuries or death are much much less likely in PLP so that's a good place to work on skills.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

The first 2 years moving time was 2 hours a day divided into 3-4 short rides, 500 hours per year. Half on drills and exercises, half on trails and rural roads, mostly trails. Last year, year 3, total moving time went up some, overall practice sessions fell to 30% and got more seasonal (winter is a fine time for the parking lot). This past winter, With snow on the ground the parking lot was supplimented with slow riding on an icey gravel road with lots of interesting traction issues, even at 4-5 mph. To answer enchanter about what skills aren't developed in my parking lot and trails riding,--I wish I had a mini dirt track with a couple of banked turns to work on traction issues. There's no place to 'practice' faster than 30 mph except tracks and public roads which is just another way of saying public roads for most everybody. The significant risks come with speed and traffic.The interesting question is how does a newbie evaluates his skills, a month, a year, a couple of years after starting. I do that by asking, how does my ability to brake and maneuver the bike compare with the same abilities in my car?My riding is more similar to motor police than trials or motocross.Which has me wondering what's typical individual practice times for the top half of that group? I doubt silver would say PLP is irrelevent past 30 mph.It's an indicator of balance skills which I believe is a factor in braking skills.Would you be willing to do the whole motor police practice routine including the group and individual PLP as a condition of participating? Of course you would. I'd do the reverse for the same opportunity although I might avoid roads the rest of the time because it really doesn't interest me so far.

FUCK NO. Again, NO FUCKING WAY. Unlike you, I actually ride. I'm not a hamster on a wheel running in circles. They want me to sit and watch, fine. Hell, I'll even give and but I have no interest in riding in little circles. My slow speed skills were good enough to take 2nd place in the CHP's slow speed event a couple years back, so... (Damn you, Machete!!! )

I get on public roads on virtually every ride but they are quiet and slow and generally for short distances. An argument is being made that PLP is no benefit except for riding at slow speeds. "The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph..." Hurt Report. PLP appears to be relevent even if you believe it's doesn't teach anything about going fast.Some trials exercises and techniques are universal. Some of their training priorities should interest all riders, but to do much of anything they do requires a bike with no seat and a suspension with no shock damping. I have no plans to own a bike like that.Your posts NEVER touch on reasons because your posts never go into specifics. It's a rhetorical style you've perfected.

Oh FFS... no, it does NOT "require" a special bike... what do you think the original Old-Skool trials riders were riding back in the day?? I've seen video from way back of guys on old 2-stroke dirt bikes riding up (at amazingly slow speeds) picnic tables, balancing on top, and then down the other side, along with walls, boulders, all sorts of shit... truly amazing.
But I'm guessing the reason you don't want to even try is because the only thing you know how to do is figure 8's and little circles.
Like a hamster on a wheel.
You're missing out on so much actual riding... and as someone who started on a dirt bike, I can tell you, there's this whole amazing world out there of actually FUN riding that you have NO CLUE even exists.
And that's even more sad than your very evident learning disability.

 

[Brown81]

Just for the record. I lead my team in training. We do low speed cone practice one a month for several hours. We also do braking exercises, 30 MPH cone weaves, and some good ol cops n robbers chasing. When we get done in the lot we go play follow the leader where I take my guys through parks, dirt trails, around benches, through streams and any scary stuff I can find. I also take em out to the little dragon, or up Mines, or out to the Berryesa GP to get the high speed twisties while riding side by side in formation.

All of this leads to well rounded confident and safe motor officers.

Parking lots are great but we do a lot more than just cone work.

Damn, that sounds so fun!!!

 

[MikeyRocks]

Damn, that sounds so fun!!!

+1! Where do I sign up?

 

[orbframe]

this guy has to be autistic or suffer from some other mental condition.

also... your "PLP" "bucket stop" in 1st gear.... wow... who cares. How would you have ANY idea how this translates to the real world? Try rolling along at 65 and doing a panic stop. You can grab all the brake you want at 10mph, hell you can even lock the front wheel and you probably won't even drop the bike.

Try that at 65... You're practicing skills which cover what, 25% of motocycling. I'm pulling 25% out of my ass, but it sounds fair to say 1/4 of riding is slow speed maneuvers..

but i'll say it again. I think this guy is just mentally challenged...

 

[orbframe]

after 3 years your crazy routine has kept you at your username. A beginner.

I only started feeling confident after I ventured outside my comfort zone... taking my brand new "still making payments on" "overpowered for a new street rider" 650R out on the freeway at 85mph in traffic...

now with my years of experience in the real world I may not be able to make a u turn as tight as you but I probably won't dump it quite as easy when faced with real world situations... asshole lane changers, deer, left turns, etc... I've had more exposure to them in my time on the bike than you in your 3 years of PLP

 

[beginner]

Damn, that sounds so fun!!!

It IS fun.

+1! Where do I sign up?

Practice maneuvering then go hit some terrain and maneuver. My goal is to come as close to that as possible. It's going to be hard for a group to go on maneuvers if a lot of people in the group can't do it. A group needs to practice as a group so everybody knows what the rest can do, ie. silversys' unit. Typical group rides would be safer by vetting the new arrivals with some PLP (same as silversys unit again). Skipping that that puts everybody at risk.

after 3 years your crazy routine has kept you at your username. A beginner.

By my standards I figure I'm a beginner for the first 5 years, intermediate for 5 years, after that we'll see.

 

[R1-Limited]

From time to time, I setup in a empty parking lot and just go through the MSF drills. Modified of course, to make tighter turns, panic stops and general swerve and miss. Done on an R1 gets the blood flowing.

I think your doing the right things, just add some areas like panic stopping (Plot that out though) make sure your area is free of debris, loose gravel and such. Figure 8's are great especially when you decrease the 8 on a gradual motion.

In all honesty, I normally did all my training on dirt bikes in the dirt. It translates well to street. One of the main points I practiced was engine off down hills. You got to know exactly what the bike was doing only using brakes.

Practice, Practice, Practice and then Practice some more. If you ever get a chance to get out to a Police Demonstration / Competition you should. Take copious notes and then practice

Motor police are particularly good at slow riding and what I call hovering. For some reason, in the past month, my practice time has been dominated by working on this. I just can't get enough of it, don't know why.

I do the ususal slow ride in a straight line. I do start/stops with feet on the pegs. I do figure 8s in 1st gear with a start/stop on the pegs in the middle. Any other maneuvers I might try?

Any fine points or tips to make practice on this more productive would be appreciated.

Here's what I mean by stop/start on the pegs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ4U_Yzyur8

 

[MikeyRocks]

now with my years of experience in the real world I may not be able to make a u turn as tight as you but I probably won't dump it quite as easy when faced with real world situations... asshole lane changers, deer, left turns, etc... I've had more exposure to them in my time on the bike than you in your 3 years of PLP

We'd eat him alive out here in California. None of the training he's been practicing for the last 3 years would prepare him for the amount of unpredicted real life situations we deal with here in the metropolitan areas of California. A ride on Bay Bridge during rush hour would cause his head to explode.

 

[NoGall]

From time to time, I setup in a empty parking lot and just go through the MSF drills. Modified of course, to make tighter turns, panic stops and general swerve and miss. Done on an R1 gets the blood flowing.

I think your doing the right things, just add some areas like panic stopping (Plot that out though) make sure your area is free of debris, loose gravel and such. Figure 8's are great especially when you decrease the 8 on a gradual motion.

In all honesty, I normally did all my training on dirt bikes in the dirt. It translates well to street. One of the main points I practiced was engine off down hills. You got to know exactly what the bike was doing only using brakes.

Practice, Practice, Practice and then Practice some more. If you ever get a chance to get out to a Police Demonstration / Competition you should. Take copious notes and then practice

It wouldn't be so goddamn funny had it not been the 195th post on this topic.

Read the thread first, people.

 

[bellstar]

when I read this thread, I think of this song

[youtube]1JaMBEIM0kM[/youtube]

 

[Enchanter]

ITypical group rides would be safer by vetting the new arrivals with some PLP

Again with the unsubstantiated claims. You have no experience and are simply guessing.

 

[Gnarly Cranium]

None of the training he's been practicing for the last 3 years would prepare him for the amount of unpredicted real life situations we deal with here in the metropolitan areas of California. A ride on Bay Bridge during rush hour would cause his head to explode.

You're missing out on so much actual riding...

Actual riding, in real life street conditions, is NOT what he is in this for. He isn't going to take a bike into those situations, ever. If a rider has no interest in the type of skills the rest of us consider indispensable-- panic stopping, swerving, traffic analyzation and quick thinking etc-- but actively avoids the type of riding where those skills are an issue (public roads or 15mph+ EVAR), it boggles us and pains us but really that's just his schtick, and at least he's unlikely to hurt anybody in the process. We can't force him to become a defensive, capable street rider and critical thinker if that's not what he's in this for. We're just beating our heads on a brick wall.

PLP appears to be relevent even if you believe it's doesn't teach anything about going fast.

It IS applicable... to a point. But there are seriously diminishing returns.

The basketball dribbling analogy is perfect. When it comes to street riding, even trials training would be like learning to play baseball-- the whole game!-- by practicing contact juggling. Learning not to drop the ball when you're passing it from one hand to the other is nice and all, sure-- but what has that got to do with putting it over the plate? All these parking lot things are like learning 3D animation by doing nothing but 2D figure drawing classes, or learning to scuba dive in the ocean by snorkeling in a swimming pool. Or learning to run triathalons by jogging in place indoors. I fucking love analogies, I could go on all day. Point is, SOME of the skills are sorta applicable, but this limited slice is nowhere near enough to make you good at the rest. You're still doing wax on, wax off, wax on, wax off, and haven't even gotten to painting the fence, much less anything else.

Even your parking lot maneuvers are questionable in their own right, especially the stuff about traction 'slip'. Stuff that Enchanter and others have called you on in VERY specific, thoroughly explained terms.