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Slow riding practice tips?

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beginner said:
The only way to find out if PLP would improve your riding is go do a bunch and see what happens.Some people aren't ready to go fast. So maybe the way to spend some riding time is to practice slow stuff in a place where there's no traffic or road hazards.I think PLP helps all riding at every speed. I might think that because I do a lot of it and can feel the connection. Motor police do it. I think if they were willing to speak their minds in this thread they might say PLP improves all the riding they do.
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Really? How can you feel the connection if you have never gone above 30mph?

They have spoken thier minds, you just don't hear them. Instead you hear what you want to hear.
 
beginner said:
The only way to find out if PLP would improve your riding is go do a bunch and see what happens.Some people aren't ready to go fast. So maybe the way to spend some riding time is to practice slow stuff in a place where there's no traffic or road hazards.I think PLP helps all riding at every speed. I might think that because I do a lot of it and can feel the connection. Motor police do it. I think if they were willing to speak their minds in this thread they might say PLP improves all the riding they do.
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You still have yet to answer my questions. SO I will ask again in reference to this response. You keep going back to Motor police. You say they MIGHT say that it improves the riding they do. They do many drills outside of a parking lot.

If you cannot answer my question in my previous post about how it helps in the real world then the exercises are pointless. If you don't know why it is useful or how it is applicable it does no good.

Clutch control was the closest you go to a real answer. Actually I would say I am already pretty good at it. Specifically, what is that idle speed figure 8 going to do for me. In what situation would I be safer because of it? Please cite a specific real world example in which learning that exercise could save my life or prevent a crash.

Or you can just answer my last post:

revnort said:
You didn't answer my question. Maybe I want to know WHY it is worth me doing these exercises. I already told you I do do parking lot exercises. Some of your examples though I don't see the point. So I am asking you.

You have continually made claims as the the benefit of these exercises and now I am asking you to tell me why. Cite specific examples of real world riding situations where learning that drill will help me. If I truly thought it would help me I would consider it. Again learning it to get better at more parking lot drills is not helpful.
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revnort said:
Specifically, what is that idle speed figure 8 going to do for me. In what situation would I be safer because of it? Please cite a specific real world example in which learning that exercise could save my life or prevent a crash.
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He won't crash in the real world because he's not in the real world.

He's in a parking lot doing figure eights.
 
SuperMike said:
He won't crash in the real world because he's not in the real world.

He's in a parking lot doing figure eights.
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Hehe, I know, but for someone that spends this much time thinking and doing this stuff I would think he would be able to say why it is applicable. He has made enough ridiculous baseless claims on the safety and importance of his life's work. So I am asking specifically what that figure 8 exercise does for him. Again if you don't know how to apply the knowledge it cannot help you. I think that is the real disconnect here. He has just decided it is useful because "motocops do it'. However, they do a lot more, and their exercises are much more advanced. So beginner persuade us. Actually answer it without making shit up and you may have more people on your side.

MrIncredible said:
Can I just vote we ban Beginner, if for no other reason that he spouts nonsense that some poor newb might actually listen to? The man is a hazard.
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I am almost ready to agree with you...
 
revnort said:
Please enlighten us on why on earth this is useful in everyday riding. Many of these exercises are actually useful, quickstops, swerves etc. What you have demonstrated is useless except for balance. I practice balance at every stop light and stop sign daily. How would perfecting this move help me to be a better rider?
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I've answered your question. The slow ride figure 8 has been around for a while, not my invention. Others call it a 2 minute box. If you're practicing everything you need to then you're all set.
 
beginner said:
I've answered your question. The slow ride figure 8 has been around for a while, not my invention. Others call it a 2 minute box. If you're practicing everything you need to then you're all set.
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NO you didn't answer my question. I asked YOU to cite a specific example of how it is useful in everyday riding. Why are you practicing it and how is it making you a better real world rider?
 
beginner said:
I've answered your question. The slow ride figure 8 has been around for a while, not my invention. Others call it a 2 minute box. If you're practicing everything you need to then you're all set.
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So basically you are practicing something without understanding WHY you are practicing it. Got it. :laughing
 
beginner said:
... I think if they were willing to speak their minds in this thread they might say PLP improves all the riding they do.
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Ok, I'll bite......

I have been a motor officer for 6 years. I have been riding since I got my first mini bike at age 5. I have ridden street, dirt, trackdays, long distance touring, twisties, flat track, and have competed in numerous police motor competitions with a stack of trophies laying around from them.

My riding skills are based on much more than the cone work I have been doing for the past 6 years. The cone work and police style training is great for improving confidence with the bike at low speeds; head and eye placement, smooth clutch and throttle control, appropriate brake useage, confidence in letting the bike lean (really far), front wheel placement, and the ability to use my body to weight the bike how I want to, have all been improved by my time spent doing cone work.

However, riding at speed, cornering at speed, and braking from speed can't be learned in cone practice. The confidence to know you can put the bike where you want when you want at the speed you want only comes from riding at speed and obtaining the confidence in your skill set and the ability/limitations of the bike. Being able to balance the bike while at a complete stop has no correlation to determining correct corner entry speed or instilling the confidence to let the bike lean into a turn. Proper front tire placement in cone work really has little relevance to tire placement at speed. Traction concerns at low speed mean diddly squat to me at speed. Smooth clutch and throttle don't have nearly the impact at speed as they do at low speed.

When I first started riding the police motor and competing I was pretty good. Not the fastest but good enough to compete. Wanna know when I turned the corner and became very competitive and started winning stuff? After taking a course from Rich Oliver at his Mystery School. Two days of sliding around Rich's tracks on a little Yamaha 125 chasing my buddies and getting comfortable climbing all over that bike to gain speed, somehow correlated to me vastly improving my cone work. So much so that I bought a couple 125s and built my own track in my backyard to continue to go sliding and racing my buddies.

While I routinely encourage riders to practice their low speed skills, riders must also gain confidence at speed to be well rounded, successful, and safe riders.
 
silversvs said:
Ok, I'll bite......

I have been a motor officer for 6 years. I have been riding since I got my first mini bike at age 5. I have ridden street, dirt, trackdays, long distance touring, twisties, flat track, and have competed in numerous police motor competitions with a stack of trophies laying around from them.

My riding skills are based on much more than the cone work I have been doing for the past 6 years. The cone work and police style training is great for improving confidence with the bike at low speeds; head and eye placement, smooth clutch and throttle control, appropriate brake useage, confidence in letting the bike lean (really far), front wheel placement, and the ability to use my body to weight the bike how I want to, have all been improved by my time spent doing cone work.

However, riding at speed, cornering at speed, and braking from speed can't be learned in cone practice. The confidence to know you can put the bike where you want when you want at the speed you want only comes from riding at speed and obtaining the confidence in your skill set and the ability/limitations of the bike. Being able to balance the bike while at a complete stop has no correlation to determining correct corner entry speed or instilling the confidence to let the bike lean into a turn. Proper front tire placement in cone work really has little relevance to tire placement at speed. Traction concerns at low speed mean diddly squat to me at speed. Smooth clutch and throttle don't have nearly the impact at speed as they do at low speed.

When I first started riding the police motor and competing I was pretty good. Not the fastest but good enough to compete. Wanna know when I turned the corner and became very competitive and started winning stuff? After taking a course from Rich Oliver at his Mystery School. Two days of sliding around Rich's tracks on a little Yamaha 125 chasing my buddies and getting comfortable climbing all over that bike to gain speed, somehow correlated to me vastly improving my cone work. So much so that I bought a couple 125s and built my own track in my backyard to continue to go sliding and racing my buddies.

While I routinely encourage riders to practice their low speed skills, riders must also gain confidence at speed to be well rounded, successful, and safe riders.
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Great post, and thank you for volunteering your time last year to help BARFers with slow speed maneuvering.
 
Heres food for thought on his none real world application.
Marines go to the firing range every year sometimes more depending on mos. Every Marine is consider a basic rifleman. I must say the marines are some dam good shots.
At the rifle range they are firing on a known distance course at three different ranges 200, 300 , And 500 yards. Given they know the distance they are firing at and the windage by flags placed on the range it is easy to make a calculated shot based on all the known factors. Now take a marine to the field still a great shot but take away all the known factors how far is the enemy from you what is your cross wind or elevation. That same marine may take several shots to make the same shot he made in practice with coaching. After several shots taken in the field the marines natural feel for the weapon and distance judgement become better and the shots become more accurate.

This is much like your parking lot. You are only practicing one aspect of riding and ignoring all other aspects. While practice is in important it is not everything practical application is a much bigger piece of the puzzle. Adults learn differently than children. Adults are much more hands on show me how this works. without practical application you will never rise above beginner you are forever stuck in a figure eight shaped rut that will eventually swallow you bike.

Also for your idea that it take 10 years for someone to become an expert at something is so far from the truth. A lot of marines have never fired a firearm prior to the Marine Corps a lot of them earned expert shooting badges right of boot camp. For your information boot camp is not 10 years long. IMHO it takes more than time to make an expert it takes time and experience. Experience in all aspects. Remember the same Marines that fired expert needed more time to become proficient in the field. Your parking lot is the firing range The streets are the field as long as you are confined to the parking lot you will always be a beginner.
 
beginner said:
I get on public roads on virtually every ride but they are quiet and slow and generally for short distances.
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So again, nothing really than more parking lot exercises.

beginner said:
My approach to issues like counter steering is to have an authoritative bike dynamics text in hand, learn the accepted physics for what interests me then try to confirm it in practice, on the bike. Here is an excellent bike dynamics book written in plain language.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/37380689/Motorcycle-Handling-and-Chassis-Design
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Really. How interesting. I bought and read that book myself. Cover to cover. 20 years ago. But you still think I'm incapable of offering decent advice.

beginner said:
New riders have a lot to learn about handling the bike, why not learn those lessons in a place where a serious crash is unlikely?
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That sounds like a great idea! Maybe something like, I dunno... lets call it a Motorcycle Safety Course. A place where experts can teach less expert people how to ride. Oh wait... We already have that. And you've refused to attend it. Because the instructors aren't figure-8 experts. </boggle>

And because repetition seems to be the thing you understand... Have you considered trials???



So anyway. I'mma gonna go back to my :Popcorn. It's delicious. Of course, I might get fat from all the :Popcorn, because I use real butter and salt on my :Popcorn. Sometimes I even douse it with Parmesan cheese, or finely chopped garlic. Why? Because it's delicious!

Now, you might ask why I'm going off about :Popcorn, and how I prepare it. I'll tell you. You ever go to the movie theater, and watch someone get a big tub of :Popcorn? They they get that weird, flavorless yellow oil poured on top of said :Popcorn? And they they refuse to salt it, because you know... they're worried about their health? That's Beginner. The guy in the theater who buys something that's designed to be unhealthy but tasty, and removes all the reasons for eating it, in order to make it healthy. Instead of just not eating it in the first place.
 
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silversvs said:
Ok, I'll bite......While I routinely encourage riders to practice their low speed skills, riders must also gain confidence at speed to be well rounded, successful, and safe riders.
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Thanks for biting. How about learn to go slow by practicing slow, then learn to go fast by practicing fast? Is it realistic for a rider to think he's competent at 70 mph if he can't do a routine Uturn without paddling his way around?
Marine_R6 said:
A lot of marines have never fired a firearm prior to the Marine Corps a lot of them earned expert shooting badges right of boot camp.
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Does the US military have any battlefield motorcycles?
 
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zero degree lean angle??

the feel of "leaning a bike" at slow "PLP" speeds vs leaning into a sweeping turn at 50 and exiting at 80... TOTALLY DIFFERENT...
 
beginner said:
Thanks for biting. How about learn to go slow by practicing slow, then learn to go fast by practicing fast? Is it realistic for a rider to think he's competent at 70 mph if he can't do a routine Uturn without paddling his way around?
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executing a u turn with some semblance of ability vs drilling the same stupid u turn over and over and over and over and over and over are two different things...

I am an officer, though I am not a motor officer. I drove cars since I was 16, but in the academy I received emergency vehicle driving lessons. We learned in the classroom, we did some slow speed maneuvers to learn how to move the crown vic around, and then spent the vast majority of the time practicing high speed chases... No driving my honda civic on the freeway, no slow speed parallel parking, nothing I did prior to driving a patrol car in a chase prepared me for the feeling of hauling ass, chasing another car, using a radio, all at the same time...

now car chases are old hat, i can practically do them while still drinking my starbucks... and it took a lot less than 10 years to be this way...

point being... you gotta actually practice what you want to be better at... you can't, as someone else mentioned, practice just fielding the baseball in the outfield when there is an ENTIRE hitting portion of the game to learn...
 
beginner said:
Is it realistic for a rider to think he's competent at 70 mph if he can't do a routine Uturn without paddling his way around??
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I would be willing to bet there are some very very competent veryvery fast riders on this forum that couldn't do a smooth easy u-turn confidently. Same for some of the guys/gals that do amazing stunt riding that I can only wish to be able to pull off.

The ability to ride well at low speed is not a measure of every rider's skill set.
 
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