The Official 2016/2017 NFL Thread

[Bowling4Bikes]

But the whole idea is that Harbaugh is the QB God and turned Alex Smith into a good player after he was so horrible etc etc, right?

That would mean that Harbaugh was either wrong about Kaep or not good enough to coach him up?

you have a point, sir.

I don't know what the answer is. somewhere in between? when you're a coach , and hitch yourself to a prospect, this is a possibility, no?

 

[mikev]

Um yeah I already saw that. The money is already set by the CBA lol. That statement is literally propaganda to try and turn peoples opinions against Bosa.

Bosa asked for one of two things to happen: Either pay his signing bonus in full up front instead of spreading it out over his contract OR remove the offset pay language from the contract. Goff got no offset language. Wentz got his entire bonus minus like a million dollars for tax purposes.

 

[mikev]

From my perspective Harbs values practicality above all else. To a fault even. It's one of the reasons he only deigns to give interviews to sports reporters. I'm still not certain Kaep was all Harbs. I think that there was battle over it. Harbs lost. And being the practical soldier he is he embraced it and ran with it. Until it became apparent that Kaep's "upside" wasn't nearly as high as was initially billed. The next war, which he lost again, was a push for a more dynamic offense. But there is a difference here. And it's why Harbs left. While as head coach he wasn't responsible for player personnel choices - he didn't have final say - as head coach he did expect to have final say regarding game plans and designing/shaping the "style" of play the team put out on the field. Losing that war was one he wasn't willing to accept. And I don't blame him. Supporting Greg Roman dovetails into it as well. Harbs may not have the authority over player personnel but he sure as hell expected to have it over his staff.

*disclaimer - I do not have any proof other than my own experience and performing a mental autopsy of the whole thing, the people involved, the way things unfolded, and the bits of info revealed through the press.

There are very few coaches who have full and complete control of the roster. I'd say the only one that is successful at is is Belichik.

Harbaugh said in his very first press conference after being hired that he would implement the WCO with the Niners. Never happened. The most dynamic offense he had was the one year the read option worked.

 

[stigeon]

But the whole idea is that Harbaugh is the QB God and turned Alex Smith into a good player after he was so horrible etc etc, right?

That would mean that Harbaugh was either wrong about Kaep or not good enough to coach him up?

yes to both. what we learned is that the QB whisperer found a higher ceiling with Smith than with Kap

Um yeah I already saw that. The money is already set by the CBA lol. That statement is literally propaganda to try and turn peoples opinions against Bosa.

Bosa asked for one of two things to happen: Either pay his signing bonus in full up front instead of spreading it out over his contract OR remove the offset pay language from the contract. Goff got no offset language. Wentz got his entire bonus minus like a million dollars for tax purposes.

agree re chargers and propaganda.

but almost every other rookie aside from the ones you mentioned agreed to offset language

offset language isn't even that bad, though. it just says that if the team cuts you they will pay you any guaranteed monies until you get a new contract. i.e. it prevents a player from double dipping and getting paid by two teams. that doesn't seem like a harsh thing to ask of people

 

[Zerox]

Bosa asked for one of two things to happen: Either pay his signing bonus in full up front instead of spreading it out over his contract OR remove the offset pay language from the contract. Goff got no offset language. Wentz got his entire bonus minus like a million dollars for tax purposes.

I agree the Chargers are dumb. I mean, they're the Chargers.

But sounds like this negotiation has been one-sided....the Chargers have compromised to try and work something out. Bosa's agent has not.

If Bosa sits out this year, he'll lose probably $15M as his value won't be as high.

He looks like an average DE by NFL standards anyway, potential bust in the making.

 

[Johndicezx9]

I agree the Chargers are dumb. I mean, they're the Chargers.

But sounds like this negotiation has been one-sided....the Chargers have compromised to try and work something out. Bosa's agent has not.

If Bosa sits out this year, he'll lose probably $15M as his value won't be as high.

He looks like an average DE by NFL standards anyway, potential bust in the making.

His mom said he "shoulda pulled an Eli Manning"....

 

[mikev]

yes to both. what we learned is that the QB whisperer found a higher ceiling with Smith than with Kap


agree re chargers and propaganda.

but almost every other rookie aside from the ones you mentioned agreed to offset language

offset language isn't even that bad, though. it just says that if the team cuts you they will pay you any guaranteed monies until you get a new contract. i.e. it prevents a player from double dipping and getting paid by two teams. that doesn't seem like a harsh thing to ask of people

It's typical for either offset language to be removed OR the bonus to be paid up front.

Bosa asked for one or the other, and even agreed to take less money to do so.

 

[Zerox]

Bosa's agent responds. I vote to fire him, simply for using the word 'unilaterely' in a sentence.

It is unfortunate the San Diego Chargers have decided to manipulate facts and negotiate in the media. The team surely is not strengthening its relationship with Joey Bosa by taking this stance and making their position public.

We have decided that we will not engage in public negotiations or discuss numbers and/or terms in this negotiation.

We will say, that it is ironic that the team now takes issue with the timing of Joey’s arrival, since the Chargers unilaterally decided to remain silent for the first 14 days of training camp instead of replying in a timely fashion to the proposal we made on the eve of training camp on July 28th.

At this point, all we can do is continue to fight for a fair contract on behalf of our client, as we do for all of our clients. The Chargers can focus on trying to sway public opinion, but our focus will remain on our client and securing a contract for him that is fair and consistent with his draft position.

 

[mikev]

They're 100% in the right.

 

[Zerox]

They're 100% in the right.

I would disagree. You can never, ever, never apply QB contract standards to a DE. It's not in the same league.

Bosa got a bullshit offer up front, Bosa's team stood firm, so the Chargers later changed to a legit offer. He has been treated fairly, and should sign.

 

[mikev]

LOL dude the position means nothing. It's ALL based on draft spot now. It's in the CBA. Teams agreed to it, and players agreed to it.

There's really nothing to negotiate besides offset language and up front vs deferred signing bonus payout.

Every top pick gets one of those things. Goff got no offset. Wentz got no deferred signing bonus payout. Every other #3 pick since the new CBA has either gotten no offset or no deferral.

If Sandy Eggo didn't want to pay what the #3 pick is supposed to be paid, they really had two options: 1) Trade the pick, 2) Win more games.

 

[Zerox]

It's ALL based on draft spot now. It's in the CBA. Teams agreed to it, and players agreed to it.

There's really nothing to negotiate besides offset language and up front vs deferred signing bonus payout.

Bosa's agent has now fucked him over. Big moniez, down the drain.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/24/bosa-not-want-to-be-charger/

There is principle, and then there is entitlement. There is stubbornness, and then there is futility.

Bosa and his agent crossed the line from the former sensibilities to the latter, and in the process pushed the Chargers over the edge.

The Chargers this week offered to pay Bosa 85 percent of his $17 million signing bonus in this calendar year. Bosa balked, or at least did not respond.

The Chargers pulled the offer.

 

[mikev]

Did you not read my last post?

Every other #3 pick since the new CBA has either gotten 100% of their bonus up front or no offset. The Chargers are still lowballing and trying to spin like they are compromising.

Clearly it's working

 

[mikev]

The Chargers also have a long history of player holdouts, fucked over Eric Weddle last year because he wanted to watch his daughter perform during a halftime show, etc...

Plus, Bosa comes from a family with money. He can afford to sit out a year and expose the shitty negotiation tactics that SD are trying to use.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see more Eli Manning situations going forward, where players just say before the draft they won't play for SD if they are drafted.

 

[Zerox]

The current market supports the team’s position, as irrational as it may seem.

Oh hi, current market. Introduce yourself to mikev

But the Chargers stand on principle because they can. Because this year’s No. 4 pick, Ezekiel Elliott, deferred $6.3 million of his signing bonus until March of next year and this year’s No. 2 pick, Carson Wentz, gave the Eagles offset language and deferred $1 million of his bonus into next January. Doesn’t matter what happened with last year’s No. 3 pick or the one before that -- Bosa got picked between two guys who deferred money and behind a guy who gave in on the offsets. The current market supports the team’s position, as irrational as it may seem.

 

[mikev]

jesus christ dude

he asked for one or the other. No offset, or no deferral. The same stipulation that all the other high draft picks get.

Wentz deferred $1M (out of $17M) for tax purposes AT HIS REQUEST.

Goff got no offset.

Zeke deferred.

The Chargers are (still) trying to defer AND have offset. Bosa is telling them to fuck off, and the NFLPA is backing him. Why is this so hard for you?

 

[mikev]

Here's the best part: From 1999-2013, out of all the players picked in the top 5 (75 total), there would have been ONE that offset language applied to.

The Chargers are willing to lose a top 3 pick over something that's happened one time in 15 years. That's amazing.

 

[Zerox]

#4 Ezekiel Elliott, who will actually have a huge impact on his team in 2016, deferred.

#3 Bosa, now utterly useless for his team in 2016, did not.

Good luck, Bosa. You'll cave in and sign, rather soon, and we'll laugh at you. The Chargers are right, you are wrong.

 

[mikev]

you really don't understand the concept of one or the other, or you're just being a troll. not sure which, and really don't care at this point.

 

[elbacalao]

The Chargers also have a long history of player holdouts, fucked over Eric Weddle last year because he wanted to watch his daughter perform during a halftime show, etc...

Plus, Bosa comes from a family with money. He can afford to sit out a year and expose the shitty negotiation tactics that SD are trying to use.
.

Bosa may be able to afford to sit out a year, but he wont get picked in the top 5 next year, maybe not top 15, so he's not going to see that money ever, unless he plays lights out and earns a huge second contract. I dont care who is "right or wrong" or really think that applies here. SD has the right to offer their draft picks anything they want, and said draft pick can sign or not. SD has the advantage though, cause Bosa aint playing in 2016 unless he signs with SD. Like I said, if he decides to sit out, he's throwing money away he wont see for another five years, if at all. Overall though I dont give a shit. I hope SD sucks and Bosa is a bust.