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Walking Dead-Season 2

You know, Herschel had a point. Find your own farm. Seriously. If it's full of walkers, well, patrol it, fix the fences, and clean it up. Why squat on somebody else's property, uninvited and unwelcome, taking advantage of their hard work? They have the manpower to put together their own settlement. Find a generator, hook it up, they have doods with the knowhow. There's plenty of equipment lying around. Let crazy Herschel do his crazy thing inside his own fence. So there's convenient swamps? And if it's just not workable to set up at a neighbor's place down the road? I'm sure there's someplace else that could be located and fortified. If they bothered to try. There's so much uninhabited real estate!

You know, I'm curious now. Let's see...

Georgia has a population of near 10mil, with an average population density of about 170 people per square mile... but people don't live across the whole damn thing, so... Almost 8mil are urban dwelling, 2mil are rural. About 29% of the land area is farmland, 15% is developed. So in the rural/farmland areas, let's estimate maybe.. 40-100 people per square mile. That is still quite a few walkers in the back country. How far does the sound of a gunshot travel? Let's say... 2 miles? Ish? Potentially farther, yeah, but loud enough to attract their attention more than general nature sounds? Maybe not. So if every walker in about 2 miles comes when you fire a gun... that's... 480-1200 walkers. Yeah, that's pretty damn infested, even if some percentage is down due to rot, falling off of cliffs, military action what have you. Clearing a farm of any size would be tough work, best set up some pitfall traps and the like before you go shooting off.

Meanwhile, In Atlanta, downtown in the urban areas the population density is 4k per square mile... so one gunshot could bring you 48,000 new friends in less than an hour, depending on shamble rate. :teeth

gOtChA_RC-51 said:
For all of you that think Shane is the most "logical" and "makes sense", you guys are delusional with Shane's character. What you guys are hearing Shane say is, "I will do anything so that WE will survive", but what Shane is really saying is, "I will do anything so that I will survive". When Shane shot Otis so that he can bring the supplies back to the farm, did Shane really shoot Otis to save Carl's life? or was it to save his own? Remember, Shane's ankle at that time was messed up and he could not run, and all of this is from a man that leveled and scoped his rifle out at his best friend (Rick) in the woods.
Someone like Shane is probably one of the last type of people you would want in your group in the situation that all the survivors are in, cause not only do you have to worry about the dead trying to kill you, you have to worry about a guy that might up and shoot you in the leg when ever he feels his life is in danger.
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This.

The man is psychotic. Seriously, he's swiftly rising all the way to sociopath-- he'll do ANYTHING to preserve his sleazy ass, and rationalize it any and every way he possibly can even if it crosses over to delusional. He's dangerous-- even more dangerous than Meryl. He's got a possessive control freak streak, and the apocalypse has kicked his panic-driven aggression into high gear, a savage survival mode that will flatten anything in its path. He is a tyrant in the making.

That's the crucial difference between him and Rick-- they're similar dudes, with similar backgrounds, both cops, both strong and capable, intelligent, practical people willing and able to lead, handle combat, and make hard decisions... but Shane has been mastered by his fear, while Rick still has a clear head on his shoulders. Shane is a rabid animal, and what's more he knows it, which makes Rick's more competent presence a constant nagging reminder of his shame.

I did enjoy the part where Carl had his dad's hat on and was talking to Shane in his dad's voice with his dad's steady blue-eyed stare. No, Shane did not like that one bit. :p

They need to get rid of him. This last outburst, throwing a shitfit while they're trying to wrangle those walkers on sticks, could have gotten some people killed. It showed he's completely out of control and can't be trusted to hear reason. If Dale gets a chance to talk to Rick at all hopefully that'll help him see the depth of the problem, but I'm guessing he'll keep his concerns to himself like a doofus.

Granted it was stupid that Rick kept screaming at Herschel to hold that dumb stick, when there's half a dozen other perfectly competent adults nearby who weren't on their knees in shock at the time.
 
^^This about Shane. You pretty much nailed it on the head of what I generally think about Shane and his downward spiral to madness.
 
Spiral said:
^^This about Shane. You pretty much nailed it on the head of what I generally think about Shane and his downward spiral to madness.
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+2 yep
 
tumblr_lveomjPObc1qcj4e9o1_500.jpg


Not sure if it's photoshopped or not.
 
gOtChA_RC-51 said:
Herschel never knew that Sophia was in the barn, it was explained that it was Otis that did the "walker" catching and Shane killed Otis before the whole, "we are looking for a little girl lost in the woods", thing came out. At that time, they were pre-occupied with trying to save Carl's life. Sophia was already a walker and caught by Otis even before Carl was shot.

For all of you that think Shane is the most "logical" and "makes sense", you guys are delusional with Shane's character. What you guys are hearing Shane say is, "I will do anything so that WE will survive", but what Shane is really saying is, "I will do anything so that I will survive". When Shane shot Otis so that he can bring the supplies back to the farm, did Shane really shoot Otis to save Carl's life? or was it to save his own? Remember, Shane's ankle at that time was messed up and he could not run, and all of this is from a man that leveled and scoped his rifle out at his best friend (Rick) in the woods.
Someone like Shane is probably one of the last type of people you would want in your group in the situation that all the survivors are in, cause not only do you have to worry about the dead trying to kill you, you have to worry about a guy that might up and shoot you in the leg when ever he feels his life is in danger.
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This is what makes Shane such an interesting character.

He didn't go on the medical run for his own interest, but to save his best friend's son.

Now I hate Shane as much as anyone, but it wasn't a premeditated act when he shot Otis.

Imagine running to the point of exhaustion (with a sprained ankle) and in about 5 seconds you are going to die.

Now are you going to volunteer to be eaten by zombies?

Of course you might go the Martyr route, but I know many people would shoot the fat guy in the leg.

That is what makes Shane such a compelling character. He slept with Lori, turned Andrea into a killer then into a wanton woman, and he has done most of the zombie killing. But he also has some good in him as well.

Trust me, if everyone was like Dale and T-Dog, show would be over by now.
 
sanjuro said:
He didn't go on the medical run for his own interest, but to save his best friend's son.

Now I hate Shane as much as anyone, but it wasn't a premeditated act when he shot Otis.
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It wasn't hugely premeditated, but it was calculated. I do believe he was watching how much ammo Otis had left, and planned the strike for the instant when Otis would not be able to shoot back.

Also, when he goes and risks himself on these missions for the sake of others, a big part of his motivation is also trying to prove himself, trying to gain the favor of others by showing how strong and indispensable he is. He has a powerful NEED to be competent, to get things done, to control his surroundings. Not to say he doesn't care about Rick or Carl, but there's a selfish slant to even his more altruistic motives. He gets very angry when other people don't afford him the respect he feels he's earned with his previous accomplishments-- note when he was bringing up to Lori how many times he's saved her life, and so on. Which is true, but the possessive sense of entitlement there is dangerously strong.

Actually, thinking on it, if Rick wasn't there Shane would probably never have descended to this level of madness. It's the sense of inadequacy, and not being in top dog in charge that's pushing him over the edge. He might not be an ideal leader on his own, but he wouldn't be quite so batshit. Rick is just a little too oblivious to the damage this imbalance is causing-- it's not his fault exactly, but he thinks of his friend too highly and it's giving him a blind spot there while Shane boils over.

I say give him Andrea and let them do their own thing, but it's probably too late for him to be satisfied with that. He's going to take any rejection by the group very, very hard-- partly because he feels entitled, partly because he's terribly lonely and frightened.
 
I still ike Shane. the big bad elephant in the room does of reality that the group seems to forget on a regular basis.

the world has gone to hell in a hand basket. survival is all that matters. he prioritizes who he thinks is worthy of saving and protects them- even if it means putting himself in danger.

he's not a loose cannon. and he isn't a sociopath- he feels. maybe too much.

and he makes anyone watching realize the awful truth in yourselves- that you'd kill the guy next to you, esp if it was someone to whom you owed no loyalty, someone who had harmed someone you cared for- to save your own life and another's. people like to think they would be all noble and just die along with the guy. you wouldn't. you'd have shot Otis too. that's why Shane's character makes most ppl uncomfortable- they refuse to see themselves in him.


as for zombie math- there were plenty of people who died that did not reanimate. plenty of bodies in those cars on the interstate. and we know from the hanging man in the tree that they will cannibalize their own.
 
So Shane is going mad but he isn't totally wrong. At least in regards to getting a little more serious about the survival situation.

I mean were there any of you who were watching Rick wrangle those zombies and thinking aw come on?? It is one thing to try and come to terms with a problem (zombies in the barn) and it is another to actively make it worse, and feed into a delusion they will be cured. So you put a few more in but at some point the situation needs to be dealt with. What happens when you have too many? What happens when you don't have anymore chickens and the zombies get out, and now you've stuffed 30 in there? Herschel had no long term plan. Just faith.

Shane was right about that. It was enough and it needed to be dealt with especially if they were going to stay.

Rick shooting Sofia was necessary not only because he felt responsible, but he needs to move a little farther over to Shane's POV if these characters are going to stay alive. Not disregarding all humanity, but he needs to get a less diplomatic about their survival.

With Rick going way too far in the other direction, Shane is necessary to balance that out. If Rick comes around just a little to Shane POV (not even close to all the way) Shane becomes unnecessary. In either case there will eventually be a larger power struggle between the two. It will be interesting to see the conversation between them after Shane's stunt. Shane wasn't all wrong and I think Rick knew that.

It may have cost them the 'safety' of the farm, but that was a time bomb anyway with Herschel squirreling away their eventual death.
 
Calling Daryl a Meth head was Shane's biggest mistake!

Honestly all the characters are weak.

None of them will survive in the long run.
 
How was Rick responsible for Sophia? Nobody else went after her immediately. Her mother should have been the first one after her, not Rick.
 
And there is a peek at the next episodes if you go to AMCTV.com
 
Rick left sophia alone to lure the zombies away

Glenn and daryl should get their own show, everyone else annoys the fuck out of me. They could ride choppers from town to town doing meth and hot chics
 
Shane is awesome but crazy, well kinda crazy. He is the type of guy you want on your team in a fire fight but you want him in front of you instead of behind. He adds the fight or flight to the show that is needed. He is proactive while everyone else is reactive. I like him but don't trust him one bit and I believe he will do more good for the group then bad.

The old guy how do you "You're outta your league Donny!" special. He wishes he could be retired and sipping lemonade but the reality is that he can't hang with what is now the present world. I suspect him commiting suicide at some point.

I really like the asian kid and he manned up like a boss by telling everyone what was really going down. For that, he is going to get eaten by a zombie!

Should Shane, Rick and that dumb chiclk just get nekkid already and bang it out?
 
Roundboy said:
None of them will survive in the long run.
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Then again, none of us do.



But yeah, calling the guy that is really good with a crossbow a tweaker is just bad for business.
 
They should just stay on the farm, regardless of what Herschel says. The world has gone to shit, private property doesn't exist anymore.
 
theres a reason he didn't make it a kill shot.

like they said when they tried to remove the walker from the well...walkers perfer their food live and screaming. If he'd shot Otis dead, the walkers would have ignored his corpse.

Shane built the group, Shane has made the correct survival decisions, and all he got was shitty treatment from the woman he helped survive and got kicked to the curb as Rick has his Second Coming and comes to make Everything Better (tm).

People insisting on keeping walkers in their arms awaiting them to reanimate? then insisting on not burning bodies of those who were bitten? Insisting on taking the whole group down time and again when one of their own becomes a liability? Giving away guns to the people who threatened to kill you (and any other survivor groups they encountered) and take everything from you in the first place when you had the upper hand? All those decisions have lead to deaths in the group. Which makes Rick responsible for more kills than Shane.

If Rick hadn't shot Otis then none of them would have made it back with the gear. It was a morally ugly decision but then you gotta decide if the end justified the means.

Now I'd better start seein some love for the Rednecks who are the only ones who've come through time and again-except for leaving an arrow in a hanging walker for no good reason...:p

Of course, the whole drama of having to have the shooting accident in the first place...mustve been using that lead-free ammo if it went thru the deer so easily :p

Godsdarling said:
Dale fixes the cars :p And he took the guns because he knows shane is psycho! Shane is crazy. HE SHOT OTTIS and let zombies eat him alive! He didn't even make it a kill shot. He almost shot his "bestfriend". Dale wanted to protect Ricks plan from getting jacked up by Shane. Shane still jacked it up.
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Rick had to "kill" Sophia. stop thinking logically, this is a TV show, not reality.

Rick, nominally the head of the travelling survivors, had to kill Sophia (one of theirs) after his "people" massacred Herschel's (head of the farm survivors).

y'all are applying too much "if this were reality" logic to the show. the writers of the show (and the comic book I presume) will do what's necessary to move the story along and make it interesting. the Shane & Daryl show is a cheap video game, exciting at first, boring after ten minutes. Dale is the conscious of the story, too old and slow and emotional for the new world, but without him, what's the point of surviving (all the Rambo types may talk a good game about survival, but you don't really wanna live like that). Herschel represents faith, pure & simple, and probably foolishly. Shane is pure id, pure survival instinct at the expense of what makes us human. Rick is the main character of the show and represents the struggle of humanity in the "new" world.

I'm oversimplifying for sure. but it's fairly plain to see that all these characters exist and are still with us for a reason. and, as long as the show writing remains good, whoever gets killed off will have been killed for a reason as well.
 
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