World swimming bans transgender women from competing

[sidewazzz]

Any decent coroner would be able to identify a trans woman as a trans woman. They certainly don't look like men, and even if they've had bottom surgery, a neo vagina looks a bit different from a normal vagina.

Speaking of, since you brought it up earlier, have Kobe Bryant compete with a 4'9" girl, and the girl wins every time no matter how much HRT he has in him. I'm pretty sure HRT doesn't bring people back from the dead, no matter how magical the trans people I know say it is.

I'll put this to the test... just for kicks. My barber is a Coroner (he cuts hair cuz that's really his passion). I'm pretty sure he would say something along the lines of "Dude... a trans is nothing more than a dude with a coochy who thinks they are a chick. On paper and on my table they are 100% male minus the cock".

 

[kevin 714]

ive coached a trans girl, and she was not good. sports was just an outlet for her to have fun. she was mosytly awkward and just trying to fit in and expand her world a little

by and large trans people deal with so much more, mentally socially and physically, that very few of them attempt organized sports. even fewer of them are proficient enough to actually make one consider whether its "fair" or not. by and large trans athletes are at a serious disadvantage

this whole insane wedge issue is arising because a couple dozen athletes total who are at a cross section of 1)being particularly good 2)transitioning with medical help 3)in a sport where the optics look bad

 

[afm199]

I coached a trans male at a trackday, I was full of respect for him and his dad. He was maybe 15 or 16, and really incredibly serious and dedicated to becoming not just a better rider, but a competitor.

 

[Climber]

ive coached a trans girl, and she was not good. sports was just an outlet for her to have fun. she was mosytly awkward and just trying to fit in and expand her world a little

by and large trans people deal with so much more, mentally socially and physically, that very few of them attempt organized sports. even fewer of them are proficient enough to actually make one consider whether its "fair" or not. by and large trans athletes are at a serious disadvantage

this whole insane wedge issue is arising because a couple dozen athletes total who are at a cross section of 1)being particularly good 2)transitioning with medical help 3)in a sport where the optics look bad

There is a big difference between a long time competitive athlete who has grown up and competed as a male through their teens and a guy who didn't feel comfortable as a male and after their transition decided to compete in sports.

In track we have a term of Training Years which determines how much hard training their body can take before reaching their Work Capacity, which is how hard and long they can push before their body is done for the day. This translates into how their body will hold up during a long day or multiple days of competition. The reason I bring this up is because their body has changed, their muscle fibers are different, their joint soft tissue is different and their bones are different than those who didn't have those training years on their body. This translates into advantages if they transition from a male to a female after their teen years, their body is very different from what it would have been had they gone through those years without the benefit of testoserone. It is an advantage that will hang around for years. I may not be an expert on the effect of the drugs used for a trans, but I am an expert on how the body changes over the years in a sport.

 

[ScarySpikes]

I'll put this to the test... just for kicks. My barber is a Coroner (he cuts hair cuz that's really his passion). I'm pretty sure he would say something along the lines of "Dude... a trans is nothing more than a dude with a coochy who thinks they are a chick. On paper and on my table they are 100% male minus the cock".

If that's the case, your barber should pursue their passion as a barber full time, because they are a shitty coroner.

 

[sidewazzz]

ive coached a trans girl, and she was not good. sports was just an outlet for her to have fun. she was mosytly awkward and just trying to fit in and expand her world a little

by and large trans people deal with so much more, mentally socially and physically, that very few of them attempt organized sports. even fewer of them are proficient enough to actually make one consider whether its "fair" or not. by and large trans athletes are at a serious disadvantage

this whole insane wedge issue is arising because a couple dozen athletes total who are at a cross section of 1)being particularly good 2)transitioning with medical help 3)in a sport where the optics look bad

Yes there are certainly exceptions in either direction. But for the most part from what people here are saying.... A man ranked #400 + in men's that identifies as a woman for a year shouldn't be allowed to compete with women. Due to the fact that the MALE that claims to be female now possesses a great physical advantage against the field they are competing against.

The great mystery here is when is it okay? Someone that made that transition when they were 5, 10, 15, 20? Lets also not forget just because you identity as a female and take meds to drop your testosterone levels doesn't mean you're not producing more testosterone then a female would especially after puberty.

Your mention of sport optics looks bad is well bad.... because almost every sport that physically demanding including golf it would look bad. That's why the sport are separated as they are.

 

[ScarySpikes]

Yes there are certainly exceptions in either direction. But for the most part from what people here are saying.... A man ranked #400 + in men's that identifies as a woman for a year shouldn't be allowed to compete with women. Due to the fact that the MALE that claims to be female now possesses a great physical advantage against the field they are competing against.

The great mystery here is when is it okay? Someone that made that transition when they were 5, 10, 15, 20? Lets also not forget just because you identity as a female and take meds to drop your testosterone levels doesn't mean you're not producing more testosterone then a female would especially after puberty.

Your mention of sport optics looks bad is well bad.... because almost every sport that physically demanding including golf it would look bad. That's why the sport are separated as they are.

Repeating the same lie that I've already debunked multiple times in this thread does not start making it more true. It just makes it look like you don't care about the facts.

 

[kevin 714]

while im not surprised, youre 100% missing my point. my point isn't that they potentially have no advantage, its that the pool of people we are drawing from is so outrageously small, that being worked up or even having an overarching policy is an overreaction,. a case by case basis to deal with the situation is all that's needed, but its being used as a wedge in the larger cultural arena to rile up angry dudes

i mean a straight up hypothetical situation has you espousing magical negro nonesnese and ernie linking pedophiles to transgenerism, so its working

There is a big difference between a long time competitive athlete who has grown up and competed as a male through their teens and a guy who didn't feel comfortable as a male and after their transition decided to compete in sports.

In track we have a term of Training Years which determines how much hard training their body can take before reaching their Work Capacity, which is how hard and long they can push before their body is done for the day. This translates into how their body will hold up during a long day or multiple days of competition. The reason I bring this up is because their body has changed, their muscle fibers are different, their joint soft tissue is different and their bones are different than those who didn't have those training years on their body. This translates into advantages if they transition from a male to a female after their teen years, their body is very different from what it would have been had they gone through those years without the benefit of testoserone. It is an advantage that will hang around for years. I may not be an expert on the effect of the drugs used for a trans, but I am an expert on how the body changes over the years in a sport.

 

[afm199]

Are we still talking about trans people? Can't we start worrying about asexual computer programmer Incels and their rights? If women won't have sex with them, isn't that engaging in bigotry and misandry? Shouldn't that be illegal?

 

[Climber]

while im not surprised, youre 100% missing my point. my point isn't that they potentially have no advantage, its that the pool of people we are drawing from is so outrageously small, that being worked up or even having an overarching policy is an overreaction,. a case by case basis to deal with the situation is all that's needed, but its being used as a wedge in the larger cultural arena to rile up angry dudes

i mean a straight up hypothetical situation has you espousing magical negro nonesnese and ernie linking pedophiles to transgenerism, so its working

I don't know where you're drawing your conclusions but it's way off base.

Nor does your solutions really hold water. In the original story, the World body was responding to a very real case and giving their ruling. It wasn't hypothetical that caused them to give a ruling.

As to a wedge, it's people who fight against it who are providing the material for a wedge.

 

[gixxerjeff]

Are we still talking about trans people? Can't we start worrying about asexual computer programmer Incels and their rights? If women won't have sex with them, isn't that engaging in bigotry and misandry? Shouldn't that be illegal?

Only in Oakland, and only illegal for certain members of the community.

 

[tzrider]

If that's the case, your barber should pursue their passion as a barber full time, because they are a shitty coroner.

What are you, the resident expert on human anatomy?

 

[Climber]

What are you, the resident expert on human anatomy?

Well, he did read a few reports, isn't that better than saying in a Holiday Inn Express?

 

[sidewazzz]

lol

 

[Eldritch]

Well, he did read a few reports, isn't that better than saying in a Holiday Inn Express?

My Dad is an engineer and he says having a penis makes you inherently unbalanced, it is the only way you can get an RC51 over 200mph.

 

[Climber]

My Dad is an engineer and he says having a penis makes you inherently unbalanced, it is the only way you can get an RC51 over 200mph.

Well, I've heard that you have to have the right sprocket on it to get it over 200 mph.

 

[afm199]

Repeating the same lie that I've already debunked multiple times in this thread does not start making it more true. It just makes it look like you don't care about the facts.

You haven't debunked anything, except in your mind.

A 6'2 inch biological male is stronger than a 4'8" biological female, can run faster, and most definitely will be a better basketball player. No matter how much you keep telling yourself otherwise.

 

[Climber]

Wow, didn't realize that BARF had an official Fact definer.

I must have missed the memo.

 

[afm199]

Wow, didn't realize that BARF had an official Fact definer.

I must have missed the memo.

I'ma start checking in once a week to make sure I know all the facts. All I have are opinions and those are subject to change. I used to think electrons were real.

 

[ScarySpikes]

You haven't debunked anything, except in your mind.

A 6'2 inch biological male is stronger than a 4'8" biological female, can run faster, and most definitely will be a better basketball player. No matter how much you keep telling yourself otherwise.

I've linked Lia Thomas's actual swimming record multiple times. The idea that she was a middling 400+ ranked swimmer prior to transitioning and the best swimmer in the NCAA after is a lie, prior to starting HRT, she was one of the best swimmers nationally. It's only when she started on HRT, but continued competing in the men's division, that her rank dropped, which is an obvious outcome to anyone who has seen someone go through HRT treatment. When she started competing in the women's division, she was competitive, but not the best. You can look up the record, and cross check when she started HRT which is public knowledge. Those are the facts.


Anyway, if you want to bring up random anecdotes, a cis female friend of mine is 6 ft 2, she is fit even without working too hard at it, but when she does decide to get into a sport she can get extremely fit very quickly. A trans woman friend of mine is about 5 ft 8, and can't put on muscle for the life of her. A cis male friend of mine is about 5 ft 4, and he is a bit scrawny.
Guess who is the strongest, the fastest runner, and the best basketball player.