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The Official 2016/2017 NFL Thread

^ thats kind of a bummer because Bradshaw, Graham and Aikmen all deserve to be in that convo

i guess the conversation will end up being guided by sports media. they'll keep throwing out stats to back up their chosen narrative. eventually one will stick, or just be repeated so often it will be accepted as the only fact worth caring about, and deserving people will be left out
 
stigeon said:
^ thats kind of a bummer because Bradshaw, Graham and Aikmen all deserve to be in that convo

i guess the conversation will end up being guided by sports media. they'll keep throwing out stats to back up their chosen narrative. eventually one will stick, or just be repeated so often it will be accepted as the only fact worth caring about, and deserving people will be left out
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Once you're in you're in. It's not going to affect those who have gone before. The only thing affecting them will be the number of people who remember them. As that pool of people gets smaller their greatness will fade a bit as well. Only the hardcore fans/statshounds will know of them in 10-20 years. So it is for all sports greats. I mean if you look at those stats there are a few who transcended their era: Johnny U, Tarkenton, and Montana jump out at me. The new age starts with Favre in my book. He straddled the old/new rules and still managed to put up iron man numbers. He may not have as many rings but I still rank him higher than Golden Boy Brady. Unless there is a huge shift in the game that reduces passing the future top-tier, great QBs will be posting up 70+k for career yardage.
 
stigeon said:
^ thats kind of a bummer because Bradshaw, Graham and Aikmen all deserve to be in that convo

i guess the conversation will end up being guided by sports media. they'll keep throwing out stats to back up their chosen narrative. eventually one will stick, or just be repeated so often it will be accepted as the only fact worth caring about, and deserving people will be left out
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Nah, Sports media won't drive it. It is more about just memory of the group consciousness. When talking about all time greats, I mention guys like Jim Brown, Y.A. Tittle, Red Grange, and most people look at me like I'm from outer space. Most professional football sportscasters are educated enough on the elder scrolls of the game to bring these guys up in the big conversations, but methinks the zeitgeist shall rule the day in most these conversations. Most people are too lazy to embrace learning the history of their passions, and are content to exist in the moment of their observations and the memories of things they themselves have experienced. Humans are just narcissistic like that.
 
Eldritch said:
Two time Superbowl MVP, which makes him undefeated in the Superbowl and against what is probably the best franchise in NFL History.

Next year he will more than likely pass/tie Joe Montana for most 4th Quarter comebacks, and the only active QB with more is the guy he beat 2 times in the Superbowl.

Next Season he will more than likely pass John Elway and Warren Moon in passing yards to be the 6th greatest of all time and eventually passing Dan Marino to be top 5 is not an unreasonable expectation.

Next season he will pass Fran Tarkenton to be 6th all time in passing touchdowns.

As a member of one of the greatest QB draft classes in NFL history, he is ahead of Rivers and Raperberger in all these stats, in large part due to a durability that is nearly unprecedented, and if he plays all season next year, he will tie Peyton for #2 behind only the eternal Favre.

And he still has 2-4 years of play left.

Best QB ever? I'm going to lean towards nope, but a future HoF guy and one of the all time greatest? The numbers are without question.

:dunno
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His numbers are definitely questionable. He's qbr is in the low 80's overall and he's never had a season with a qbr in the 100's. his completion percentage for his career is sub 60%. None of those stats should earn an elite status in today's era quarterbacks. He's won two super bowls though and the Hof puts way too much emphasis on winning the big game, so he'll get in the hall even though his stats don't really say elite.

You must consider Dalton elite though, since a side by side comparison of their first six years shows Dalton throwing for more yards, more Td's, better Qbr, better ypp and more wins.
 
stigeon said:
^ thats kind of a bummer because Bradshaw, Graham and Aikmen all deserve to be in that convo

i guess the conversation will end up being guided by sports media. they'll keep throwing out stats to back up their chosen narrative. eventually one will stick, or just be repeated so often it will be accepted as the only fact worth caring about, and deserving people will be left out
Click to expand...

Bradshaw was a good QB on a stellar team. He has to be the most overrated QB with Namath being the other. Namath doesnt really belong in the Hall.

The one QB not in the Hall who has stats better than both of them, plus better than half the QB's already in the Hall is Ken Anderson. He should be in.
 
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elbacalao said:
His numbers are definitely questionable. He's qbr is in the low 80's overall and he's never had a season with a qbr in the 100's. his completion percentage for his career is sub 60%. None of those stats should earn an elite status in today's era quarterbacks. He's won two super bowls though and the Hof puts way too much emphasis on winning the big game, so he'll get in the hall even though his stats don't really say elite.

You must consider Dalton elite though, since a side by side comparison of their first six years shows Dalton throwing for more yards, more Td's, better Qbr, better ypp and more wins.
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Well, to counterpoint, I invest more in the leadership of a QB and winning the big game, and think you invest too heavily in QBR and completion percentage. I stand by a position (which as you say Canton and most professional sports announcers are behind me on) that at the end of the day, post season production is what really matters, and from there, Dalton is a dud. Hell, George Blanda is in the Hall of Fame with a QB rating of like 60.

His stats are not in question, the Red Menace is certainly good, but he needs a ring in order to establish himself as a historical figure on the NFL. If he can get the CinnCats THERE, I think he will no question have to be on the books as a great one and not just another contender.

It is accomplishments like this that indicate that people will know who Eli and Raperberger are 20 years from now, and no one outside of So Cal will have much recollection what a, "Phillip Rivers," is. As it is, despite his grand accomplishments, Jim Kelly's name is already fading away from the lips and memories of most football fans. The thing about tournament sports is, they remember the guys who won. In football, that means Championships, the big one, the last man standing. Dalton hasn't been able to do it yet, but he has certainly played some good ball in the meantime.
 
That's why we remember guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. They won the big one.
 
mikev said:
That's why we remember guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. They won the big one.
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Nobody cares about Jeff Hostetler either, but I think you get the point. Once you get a couple of Rings, it is an elevation.

Like, if you're in the top 15 here more than once, you're probably a big deal.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/02/sup...-ever-joe-montana-dan-marino-patriots-falcons

Johndicezx9 said:
Giants released Cruz....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ruz-released-new-york-wide-receiver/97854710/
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Yeah, not unexpected. With Sheppard on the roster, Cruz was just too expensive. Kind of hoping we can resign him at a lower cost, but I'm sure someone else will be willing to pay him.
 
Eldritch said:
Well, to counterpoint, I invest more in the leadership of a QB and winning the big game, and think you invest too heavily in QBR and completion percentage. I stand by a position (which as you say Canton and most professional sports announcers are behind me on) that at the end of the day, post season production is what really matters, and from there, Dalton is a dud. Hell, George Blanda is in the Hall of Fame with a QB rating of like 60.

His stats are not in question, the Red Menace is certainly good, but he needs a ring in order to establish himself as a historical figure on the NFL. If he can get the CinnCats THERE, I think he will no question have to be on the books as a great one and not just another contender.

It is accomplishments like this that indicate that people will know who Eli and Raperberger are 20 years from now, and no one outside of So Cal will have much recollection what a, "Phillip Rivers," is. As it is, despite his grand accomplishments, Jim Kelly's name is already fading away from the lips and memories of most football fans. The thing about tournament sports is, they remember the guys who won. In football, that means Championships, the big one, the last man standing. Dalton hasn't been able to do it yet, but he has certainly played some good ball in the meantime.
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Yes no doubt post season wins, particularly championship rings, help elevate a QB's prestige. But numbers don't lie. Eli is a very good Qb. That is unquestionable. Beyond that...we all have our opinions.
 
Right, Scott Norwood hits that FG and he's considered probably a top 5 QB ever.
 
So, it has been brought up many times when discussing Football Nonsense over the years that the modern NFL Started in 2002, with the Houston Texans Joining the League and rounding it out to 32 Teams. Found this article that scores franchises since 2002, pretty fun stuff. But seriously, WTF, Patriots? Almost doubled the #2 Team.

http://sportige.com/ranking-the-nfl-teams-based-on-2002-2016-playoff-achievements-105677/

also of note, WTF, Peyton manning?
 
There is no way TB would have survived for as long as he has if he'd played in the 80s and 90s. Just the whole "no touching the QB helmet" has, and will continue, to extend QB careers. I hope I live long enough to see all of TB's records eclipsed. I will raise a glass if I am.
 
CocoLoco said:
There is no way TB would have survived for as long as he has if he'd played in the 80s and 90s. Just the whole "no touching the QB helmet" has, and will continue, to extend QB careers. I hope I live long enough to see all of TB's records eclipsed. I will raise a glass if I am.
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Well, Brett Favre still has him beat on most things except the Championship deal and I wonder if anyone will ever beat that.
 
CocoLoco said:
Even Favre's stats will be eclipsed starting with the number of games and games started.
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I don't know, I mean, it is possible, but dude had a combination of startability and durability that is just kind of unheard of unless you are maybe a Manning. The previous two record holders for consecutive starts were both lineman from Minnesota that started in the 60's and went for almost 16 years on their runs and Favre is like an extra 2 seasons ahead of them in consecutive starts. Like, I can totally see Eli staying healthy for the duration of his career, but he still might not be in the league long enough to beat Favre. :laughing
 
Eldritch said:
I don't know, I mean, it is possible, but dude had a combination of startability and durability that is just kind of unheard of unless you are maybe a Manning. The previous two record holders for consecutive starts were both lineman from Minnesota that started in the 60's and went for almost 16 years on their runs and Favre is like an extra 2 seasons ahead of them in consecutive starts. Like, I can totally see Eli staying healthy for the duration of his career, but he still might not be in the league long enough to beat Favre. :laughing
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Understood. Favre was/is a singular human being. I mean it in the sense that he's in a realm of his own. The new batch of QB are going to be reaping the benefits of better training regimens and the new rules. Favre had the benefit of his genes and training. Imagine how much farther he could have gone if he had spent his entire career under the new rules regulating how QB are contacted? At some point someone like him or Johnny U is going to come along and blow all of these stats out of the water. I just hope the concussion issues don't make the game unrecognizable and my advanced state of decay doesn't get in the way of me being here when it happens.
 
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