The Retire and Relocate Thread™

[lizard]

Since moving to Switzerland where Amazon isn't a thing..

I really like Switzerland. Setting a base out of Mürren. Hike a different trail every day.

Spent a night in Geneva. Sat down for pizza late afternoon. Hung out for awhile inside with the GF at the time. Sun went down. Walked out to return to hotel. Holy moly. The Africans came out. Did not see that coming!

Where do you live? I’m jelly.

 

[Volcomism]

Yes, exactly this. Peaceful like I've never experienced before. I live in Graubunden, middle of the Alps near Lichtenstein (1hr east of Zürich). Super chill here. High salaries, no crime, cost of living is on par with California though. While I'm fairly confident I'll be able to retire here, I think I'd be happier somewhere like Italy with warmer people (Swiss can be cold). However, I have one burning thought that if the world has a genuine fresh water crisis, Switzerland will be the best place to live and least affected country. Not sure I'm being rational in this fear though.

 

[tzrider]

Doesn't really explain Texas right now. They've got plenty of humidity and yet have the largest wildfire in state history burning right now.

Current humidity in the panhandle is 25.82%.

 

[littlebeast]

Yes, exactly this. Peaceful like I've never experienced before. I live in Graubunden, middle of the Alps near Lichtenstein (1hr east of Zürich). Super chill here. High salaries, no crime, cost of living is on par with California though. While I'm fairly confident I'll be able to retire here, I think I'd be happier somewhere like Italy with warmer people (Swiss can be cold). However, I have one burning thought that if the world has a genuine fresh water crisis, Switzerland will be the best place to live and least affected country. Not sure I'm being rational in this fear though.

sorry babe, have traveled to just short of 50 countries (most, very frequently), and although it’s breathtakingly beautiful, switzerland is a close tie with the netherlands for my least favorite place. the swiss are odd, humorless and beyond cold. as are the dutch. both are inhospitable IMO.

 

[Volcomism]

I've heard the same about the people, just haven't witnessed it myself. Alternatively, maybe because I've lived amongst cranky ass Germans for soo long that I've grown accustomed.

Where'd you visit?

 

[byke]

Since moving to Switzerland where Amazon isn't a thing. Most people here don't order much online at all, but actually take the time to go to the shops and outlets. I forgot about how you can make a day out of a shopping trip, people watch and chill at a cafe, take your time and relax in the process.

It's like going back in time.

Doesn't really explain Texas right now. They've got plenty of humidity and yet have the largest wildfire in state history burning right now.

Unpossible!

Yes, exactly this. Peaceful like I've never experienced before. I live in Graubunden, middle of the Alps near Lichtenstein (1hr east of Zürich). Super chill here. High salaries, no crime, cost of living is on par with California though. While I'm fairly confident I'll be able to retire here, I think I'd be happier somewhere like Italy with warmer people (Swiss can be cold). However, I have one burning thought that if the world has a genuine fresh water crisis, Switzerland will be the best place to live and least affected country. Not sure I'm being rational in this fear though.

Are they cold through and through, or just the first layer? I've met people like that and have found that *if* you can get them to talk about something they find interesting, that stern/cold layer disappears.

I've been working rounding up docs to apply for Italian citizenship since late 2019 and should have the document package wrapped up and apostilled in a few months. I miiiiight go apply in person later this year, just need to fit it in with a local move first.

Water is something I'm concerned with too and as you know it's and issue the further south you go in Italy. I don't think I'd live in Puglia because of it. Maybe Calabria since it's wetter over there, then you'd have easy access to Sicily. I like Abruzzo and Molise on paper, but I've never been. Supposedly the Imperia area up north has the best weather.

 

[TWF]

I've heard the same about the people, just haven't witnessed it myself. Alternatively, maybe because I've lived amongst cranky ass Germans for soo long that I've grown accustomed.

Where'd you visit?

Try driving around with lets say Slovak plate on your car

 

[TWF]

Water is something I'm concerned with too and as you know it's and issue the further south you go in Italy. I don't think I'd live in Puglia because of it. Maybe Calabria since it's wetter over there, then you'd have easy access to Sicily. I like Abruzzo and Molise on paper, but I've never been. Supposedly the Imperia area up north has the best weather.

Collect rain like in old times, dig well and store water. Every house in my parents village has its own well. Every drop of rain that hits house roof goes in to well.
They also have huge well for whole village. Basically they concrete huge area to collect rain.
I hear even parts of Italy with water have issues with quality. Wife has relatives in northern Italy and they say they don't drink city water, only bottled.

 

[littlebeast]

I've heard the same about the people, just haven't witnessed it myself. Alternatively, maybe because I've lived amongst cranky ass Germans for soo long that I've grown accustomed.

Where'd you visit?

mostly in the west, and mostly on personal travel (my dude is portuguese, so we usually make 3-4 personal trips to europe each year). WRT cities - primarily montreux, lausanne, basel, and bern (for business), and some smaller towns in between (all on road trips - usually on our way from italy or france on the way back to germany).

had to smile at your comment about germans. my company has several major facilities there, and have spent probably more time there than anywhere else in europe, and have a lot of colleagues and friends there. and germans are similar to the french in my experience - they are nothing like their stereotype reputation. love 'em both. italians? so like i said, my dude is portuguese - a very intense, very volatile latin. italians are that, but even less domesticated than the portuguese (if that were possible). super fun, but just plain bat-shit crazy lol.

 

[lizard]

…
I've been working rounding up docs to apply for Italian citizenship since late 2019 and should have the document package wrapped up and apostilled in a few months. I miiiiight go apply in person later this year, just need to fit it in with a local move first.

...

Very interesting!

I have dual citizenship. Born in Brazil then became ‘Murican. Have two passports. Grandfather born in Macau (former Portuguese colony as you may know). Gramps was a Portuguese citizen. Wish I had the docs as proof so I can get a third passport.

Also, Brazilian cousin is married to a Brazilian born man whose parents were born in Italy so her daughter, born in BR, has an Italian passport.

Kindly share how you’re obtaining Italy citizenship. If too personal, I understand.

 

[byke]

That's awesome! Brazil passport looks good with lots of visa free access. My great great grandfather was born in Italy and emigrated to San Rafael in the late 1800's and Italy has jure sanguinis laws where citizenship is maintained or lost through your lineage depending on various conditions and dates of events. And if you qualify, it's just a matter of acquiring all vital records for everyone in the chain, translating them to Italian, and apply at the local consulate, or any comune in Italy,.

 

[lizard]

That's awesome! Brazil passport looks good with lots of visa free access. My great great grandfather was born in Italy and emigrated to San Rafael in the late 1800's and Italy has jure sanguinis laws where citizenship is maintained or lost through your lineage depending on various conditions and dates of events. And if you qualify, it's just a matter of acquiring all vital records for everyone in the chain, translating them to Italian, and apply at the local consulate, or any comune in Italy,.

Holy shit. You can get Italian citizenship based on great great gramps! Hope you get it.

Re: Brazilian passport, you are correct. I entered Russia with my Brazilian passport sans visa ;-)

Next, Cuba?

PS - FWIW:

1) American friend bought condo in Porto. She’s working on her PT citizenship. I don’t recall the deets but attainable since she bought property.

2) My sister, also born in BR, has kids born here. They have two passports, US and BR. They can get a Mexican passport since their father was born in MX. Frickin’ zoomer / millie are too lazy to take BART into the City and apply

 

[Volcomism]

Are they cold through and through, or just the first layer? I've met people like that and have found that *if* you can get them to talk about something they find interesting, that stern/cold layer disappears.

I've been working rounding up docs to apply for Italian citizenship since late 2019 and should have the document package wrapped up and apostilled in a few months. I miiiiight go apply in person later this year, just need to fit it in with a local move first.

Water is something I'm concerned with too and as you know it's and issue the further south you go in Italy. I don't think I'd live in Puglia because of it. Maybe Calabria since it's wetter over there, then you'd have easy access to Sicily. I like Abruzzo and Molise on paper, but I've never been. Supposedly the Imperia area up north has the best weather.

Onion style. For example, my best friend tried to get her husband to befriend me and his initial excuse before meeting me was, "No. I only want to have a few friends and have no time for anyone else". Her response was wtf, as was mine - but it is what it is. After her forcing him out a few times with my wife and I - we're now super good friends and talk frequently.

In my experience the only way you're going to meet ppl and make friends is the same as dating. You have to speak the same language, you have to go to interest group/club things like bouldering, pop quizzes, beers with colleagues - and be ready that some nights you might strike out and have to go home and play single player games instead of multiplayer

 

[Volcomism]

mostly in the west, and mostly on personal travel (my dude is portuguese, so we usually make 3-4 personal trips to europe each year). WRT cities - primarily montreux, lausanne, basel, and bern (for business), and some smaller towns in between (all on road trips - usually on our way from italy or france on the way back to germany).

had to smile at your comment about germans. my company has several major facilities there, and have spent probably more time there than anywhere else in europe, and have a lot of colleagues and friends there. and germans are similar to the french in my experience - they are nothing like their stereotype reputation. love 'em both. italians? so like i said, my dude is portuguese - a very intense, very volatile latin. italians are that, but even less domesticated than the portuguese (if that were possible). super fun, but just plain bat-shit crazy lol.

Oo the route to/from Germany/Italy passes right by my place (I'm very close to Chur). So stop by for a coffee/beer

Fully agree about Italians being undomesticated. They're soo much fun but omg at times.

 

[littlebeast]

Oo the route to/from Germany/Italy passes right by my place (I'm very close to Chur). So stop by for a coffee/beer

Fully agree about Italians being undomesticated. They're soo much fun but omg at times.

will do babe. and reciprocating, if you're ever near the northern sierra's - we have lovely guest accommodations (and a very well stocked wine cellar, beer fridge, and liquor cabinet). and roads that would make you cream your jeans.

 

[byke]

Holy shit. You can get Italian citizenship based on great great gramps! Hope you get it.

Re: Brazilian passport, you are correct. I entered Russia with my Brazilian passport sans visa ;-)

Next, Cuba?

PS - FWIW:

1) American friend bought condo in Porto. She’s working on her PT citizenship. I don’t recall the deets but attainable since she bought property.

2) My sister, also born in BR, has kids born here. They have two passports, US and BR. They can get a Mexican passport since their father was born in MX. Frickin’ zoomer / millie are too lazy to take BART into the City and apply

If I were looking for citizenship without any ancestral ties, I'd definitely try Portugal first. You'd only need to live there for 5 years before applying and most other EU countries are 10 years. Their language requirement isn't too bad either. And you can buy a passport for I think as little as $250k through real estate if it's a fixer in a certain area and if you spend a certain amount fixing it up, otherwise it's $350k..? Any EU citizenship or residence allows you to live/work anywhere in the EU, so just get whatever you can wherever you can and the whole place opens up.

She should get that MX passport for the kids. Pretty much everything that's available just to have those options down the road. Maybe look into your PT grandparent, because they have a citizenship-by-descent program. And really scrub it, because sometimes there are much lesser known programs, like I think Italy has something where you can apply after living there for 3 years even if you don't technically qualify, but can prove that you have an Italian ancestor.

Onion style. For example, my best friend tried to get her husband to befriend me and his initial excuse before meeting me was, "No. I only want to have a few friends and have no time for anyone else". Her response was wtf, as was mine - but it is what it is. After her forcing him out a few times with my wife and I - we're now super good friends and talk frequently.

In my experience the only way you're going to meet ppl and make friends is the same as dating. You have to speak the same language, you have to go to interest group/club things like bouldering, pop quizzes, beers with colleagues - and be ready that some nights you might strike out and have to go home and play single player games instead of multiplayer

See I think one layer is kinda fun, it's like a game to get someone out of their shell.

 

[Volcomism]

I'm in Miami for the next weeks, and I don't get how this place ends up on people's list of places to retire. While the diversity of food is pretty good and the people are extremely friendly - quality in housing, food ingredients, and a bit of lawlessness is hit and miss. Unless you're balling in 200k+ pension payments, I don't see the value here.

 

[tzrider]

Florida is much less affordable than it used to be.

 

[byke]

Two of my coworkers left california for florida because, "the housing market in california is about to crash". So far, the homes they sold in CA are up $12k and $20k and the homes they bought in FL are both down $11k. For this, they packed up their wives and kids and everyone left their families in CA, and now these guys have to fly back to CA for work for weeks at a time while they leave their wives and kids home alone, on the opposite side of the country from their families with no support system. All quite literally because they believe kooky shit they read on weird websites they trust because the MSM is out to get them. Some people are just born with brains that function similarly to meth users and for whatever reason, they love arizona and florida.

 

[Kornholio]

Florida is much less affordable than it used to be.

That depends entirely on what part of the state you're referring to. There's a lot more to it than Miami and Orlando.

Two of my coworkers left california for florida because, "the housing market in california is about to crash". So far, the homes they sold in CA are up $12k and $20k and the homes they bought in FL are both down $11k. For this, they packed up their wives and kids and everyone left their families in CA, and now these guys have to fly back to CA for work for weeks at a time while they leave their wives and kids home alone, on the opposite side of the country from their families with no support system. All quite literally because they believe kooky shit they read on weird websites they trust because the MSM is out to get them. Some people are just born with brains that function similarly to meth users and for whatever reason, they love arizona and florida.

Unpopular opinion: some of us don't need to have our families in our backyard in order to be successful. I don't live in Florida and have no desire to either, but I do not regret moving to the eastern portion of the country as it was a decision that was nearly twenty years in the making and done for reasons that have fuck-all to do with politics. However, it's 100% true that the California housing market is overrated and out of control for basically any place in the state that the majority of people would actually want to live in. You can say there are affordable places to live in California too, but the reality is that no one is clamoring to move to Bakersfield or Fresno and even those spots are getting too pricey as well.

I make more money working in Tennessee than I ever did in California and bought a home two months after moving here for $400,000 less than what a comparable one would've cost me in Hayward. Yes, Hayward. Not San Jose or San Francisco...fucking Hayward. The two-bedroom townhouse we were renting in the Hayward hills sold a year after we moved away for $740,000. That's absolutely fucking ridiculous. Y'all can keep that shit. My mortgage payment here is lower than I ever paid for rent at any detached single-family home I rented in California all while getting paid a higher salary with no state income tax. Believe me when I tell you the only thing I miss about California is the Mexican food. I have all the twisty roads for moto riding I could want here, green scenery year-round and plenty of mountains and trails to explore.